Major Project PodcastProjects over $1B
The Major Project Podcast · Episode Brief · As Recorded

Hannah Garrett
with Orion Matthews

“You can’t automate chaos.” Data centers, tech versus construction, and why structure has to come before AI. Hannah Garrett in conversation with Orion Matthews of Queryon.

Hannah Garrett Hannah GarrettGuest · Sr. Program Manager, Strategic Portfolio Management
Orion Matthews Orion MatthewsHost · Founder, Queryon
Recorded Aug 20, 2026 Episode 024 · Released Sep 15, 2026 1 Conversation 71 min on the record 8 chapters
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The Conversation

Episode Overview

A recorded, on-the-record conversation between two people watching tech and construction collide on the largest capital programs in the world. Orion Matthews, CEO of Queryon, hosts; Hannah Garrett, ten years across both halves of the data center buildout, now Sr. Program Manager at Oracle, is the guest. The through-line: you can’t automate chaos, so structure has to come before AI.

71
Minutes on the record
11k
Words spoken
130
Speaker exchanges
64%
Guest share of talk time
Format

One recorded conversation

Taped over Zoom on August 20, 2026: roughly 71 minutes on the record, following the show’s four-act arc: intro, topics, advice, wrap-up.

Audience

People who build big things

Project controllers, project and program managers, owners, engineers and students: anyone working on (or aiming at) projects over US$1 billion.

The thread

Structure before AI

AI doesn’t fix things: it amplifies them. Hannah’s case for cleaning up operating models now, told through the data center boom she’s lived from the inside.

Orion hosts

  • Founder of Queryon and an expert in PMO data analytics: he’s built project-controls reporting for billion-dollar portfolios at BP, Santos and other major owners
  • A programmer by trade, so he can argue the tech side’s case (Scrum, agile, “world models”) and then push back from the project-controls side

Hannah is the guest

  • 10 years across both halves of the data center buildout: field engineer at Hensel Phelps to portfolios at Meta, Aligned, Microsoft and Oracle
  • Writes on operating models and AI readiness at The Bigger Vision: her post “You Can’t Automate Chaos” sparked this episode
Editorial note

Everything attributed in this brief was said on the record during the August 20, 2026 conversation. Quotes are lightly condensed for readability (false starts and fillers removed, meaning untouched), and timestamps are approximate, so they may drift a little from the final cut.

As Recorded

Episode Timeline

The conversation as it actually unfolded: eight chapters across 71 on-the-record minutes. The strip below maps each chapter’s share of the runtime against the show’s four-act structure; timestamps are approximate. Click any block to jump to its chapter.

0:005 min01

Cold Open, Hannah’s Path & the Boom

The welcome, the guest intro, and life in data centers before and after “the meteor.”

5:1610 min02

Opposite Organisms: Tech vs Construction

Why the two sides think differently, what breaks at the seam, and who actually absorbs a change.

15:1410 min03

Structure Before AI

The Ford story, “AI amplifies things,” and why chaos is a report card.

25:3911 min04

Structure Without Bloat

Structure with flexibility, widening the hiring pool, and the administrative load burning PMs out.

36:2918 min05

Visibility & the Central Workplace

Five-minute portfolio health, qualitative signals, contractual walls, and the platform that doesn’t exist yet.

54:556 min06

The Takeaway & Advice

Pain points as symptoms, bold roadmaps for leadership, and advice for students and career shifters.

1:00:339 min07

Books, Speed & the Moment

The bookshelf, “the new moat is speed,” and living through an in-between moment in history.

1:10:001 min08

Close

Where to find Hannah, thanks, and the outro.

Who carried the mic

Hannah Garrett · ~43 min · ~7,000 words (guest) Orion Matthews · ~24 min · ~4,100 words (host)

A healthy guest-forward split for an interview show, measured across the full conversation.

On the Record · 0:00

Cold Open

Orion opens with the show’s standing frame, then hands the episode its thesis in one breath: a guest who has lived both halves of the data center buildout.

How the episode opens (0:00)

“Welcome to the Major Project Podcast. I’m your host, Orion Matthews. In this pod, we are learning from the people that work on projects over $1 billion, trying to tease out lessons and learnings from these big endeavors. My guest today is Hannah Garrett, ten years across both halves of the data center build-out. She came up in commercial construction at Hensel Phelps and Clark, and then moved to the owner side, running programs and portfolios at Meta, Aligned, Microsoft, and now Oracle. Hannah, welcome to the podcast.”

The Host

The Host · Orion Matthews

Orion Matthews
Orion Matthews
Founder, Queryon · Host, The Major Project Podcast · PMO data & analytics
Eugene, Oregon, United States
Project Controls ReportingPMO Data AnalyticsCapital PortfoliosAI in ProjectsPower BI
“Connecting bright minds to the decision makers changing the world.”Orion Matthews · LinkedIn

Orion is an award-winning programmer, entrepreneur and technology executive who has spent the last decade in the engine room of major capital projects. He founded Queryon in Washington, D.C. in 2015 with a focus on data analytics and software for the construction industry, starting with bellwether client BP, whose project-controls solutions his team deployed globally, from the North Sea to Azerbaijan to Houston. Today he’s a recognized expert in PMO data analytics and project-controls reporting, serving billion-dollar portfolios for owners including BP, Santos, Balfour Beatty and Turner & Townsend, a regular speaker at major industry conferences on AI and analytics in capital projects, and the host of this show.

The project-controls résumé

$B portfolios
Builds the project-controls reporting and PMO analytics that multi-billion-dollar capital portfolios run on: BP, Santos and other major owners and delivery partners.
Global deployments
Queryon’s project-controls solutions run on programs across the North Sea, Azerbaijan and Houston; clients include Balfour Beatty and Turner & Townsend.
On stage
Regular conference speaker on the practical application of AI and data analytics in capital projects, and host of The Major Project Podcast, on lessons from projects exceeding US$1 billion.

Beyond the PMO

The builder’s arc
Founded Introspect Software out of high school; built and sold Design-PT (2003–2015, acquired by LMJ Consulting). His software has run everywhere from McMurdo Station in Antarctica to aircraft carriers at sea, with write-ups in Scientific American, CNN and Maxim, and a BP Helios Award as lead developer and architect.
Community
Eugene chapter director of Startup Grind; co-founder of Thanks.org, helping nonprofits reduce donor churn.
Education
B.B.A., University of Alaska Anchorage.
Host threads to listen for
  1. Channeling a techie (5D BIM, a “world model” of the data center, AI forecasting in real time) to set up the structure-before-AI chapter. 15:14
  2. The EHR analogy: doctors who retired rather than carry the documentation burden. Is the same thing happening to PMs? 32:09
  3. “Forgetting is actually a fundamental piece of intelligence”: why systems that remember everything drown their users. 34:40
  4. The confession: RBS, WBS, CBS, OBS; “at some point, you step back and you’re just like, what have we done? We’re just trying to build five data centers.” 51:40
  5. The closing meditation on living through an in-between moment in history: agrarian to industrial, and now this. 1:07:47
The Guest

The Guest · Hannah Garrett

Hannah Garrett
Hannah Garrett
Sr. Program Manager, Strategic Portfolio Management · Oracle
Miami, Florida, United States
Program ManagementPortfolio OperationsData CentersOperating ModelsAI Readiness

Hannah has spent ten years managing complex portfolios in fast-moving environments, and she’s done it from both sides of the data center buildout. She came up through the general-contractor world (Hensel Phelps, Clark Construction), ran projects at The Hanover Company, then crossed to the owner side in 2021: global programs and process at Meta, technical program management at Aligned Data Centers, AI data center portfolios at Microsoft, and now strategic portfolio management at Oracle. Her focus: defining how portfolios operate, aligning teams around clear ownership, and keeping execution consistent as scale increases.

“You can’t automate chaos.”Hannah’s line, the post that sparked this episode
10
Years across the buildout
7
Companies, GC side to hyperscale
2
Sides of the table: builder & owner
5–6
Years inside data center portfolios

Career journey

Construction · GC & developer side
Owner side · Hyperscale data centers
Learning the build
Programs at scale
AI-era portfolios
01Hensel PhelpsField Engineer2015–2017 · San Diego
02Clark ConstructionProject Engineer2017–2020 · D.C. & San Diego
03The Hanover CompanyProject Manager2020–2021 · Los Angeles
04MetaGlobal Program & Process Manager, Data Centers2021–2023
05Aligned Data CentersTechnical Program Manager2023–2024
06MicrosoftSr. Portfolio Manager, AI Data Centers2025–2026
07OracleSr. Program Manager, Strategic Portfolio Mgmt2026–

Credentials & recognition

Education
B.S. Construction Engineering, San Diego State University.
Certifications
LEED AP Building Design + Construction; Commercial Real Estate.
Honors
Commercial ASC Competition.

Writing & voice

The Bigger Vision
Her Substack on operating models and AI readiness: thebiggervision.substack.com. “Where I break down macro perspectives within my industry and in general.”
Known for
“You Can’t Automate Chaos,” “Complexity is the Enemy,” the four-step portfolio takeover, and the tech-vs-construction thesis this episode is built on.
Find her
LinkedIn: /in/hannahegarrett · “send me a note.”
In her own words

“I’m one of those weird people that loves entering something that I’m completely clueless on… You just have to solve the puzzle in chunks.” 41:33

Chapter 01 · 0:35

The Meteor Moment

Hannah’s path in, and what the boom looked like from inside it. Five years covering every side of delivery on the general-contractor side (pre-construction with developers through managing work in the field), then a jump to Meta’s data center portfolio in 2021, “before data centers were really cool.” Then the world noticed.

“It definitely felt like a meteor overnight… Before, it was like, ‘Oh, I work on data centers,’ and they’re like, ‘What is a data center?’, and you have to explain the cloud.”Hannah Garrett · 2:01

Was the industry prepared? “Absolutely not.”

“It’s really tech companies taking on a bigger role in infrastructure and construction: that’s a big jump, they’re so different. And it’s construction companies trying to keep up with tech. It’s a massive change, and it felt like overnight.” 2:38

What the field taught her: change management

“When you’re in construction, you see all the downward impacts of that change: everything’s interconnected on a project… I’m really glad I got to see the extent of that and then join the owner side, because oftentimes on the owner side you don’t see the full impacts.” 3:25

Key moments
  1. The guest intro lands the both-halves framing: GC side at Hensel Phelps and Clark, owner side at Meta, Aligned, Microsoft, Oracle. 0:35
  2. Life before the boom: explaining the cloud at dinner parties; life after: “internally, it’s just gotten a little more chaotic, because it’s so busy.” 2:01
  3. Why she started writing: “All these themes we’re going to talk about today, I’m super passionate about, but no one’s really talking about them.” 4:39
Don’t miss The “meteor overnight” answer (2:01–3:04): sixty seconds on what a data center career felt like before and after the boom, ending on “absolutely not”: the industry was not prepared.
Chapter 02 · 5:16

Opposite Organisms: Tech vs Construction

The episode’s frame. Tech is built to pivot; construction is built to reduce risk. Both are rational, and they are now jointly delivering billions of dollars of infrastructure. This chapter unpacks what actually breaks at the seam: who absorbs a change, whose language wins, and why the delivery team keeps taking the blame.

The tech organism

  • Highly incentivized to out-innovate: pivoting and re-orgs are the culture, flexibility is a requirement
  • Works in code and software: you can go back and edit, so change feels reversible and cheap
  • “One side’s culture: change everything, constantly.” · from Hannah’s writing

The construction organism

  • The job is to reduce risk: quality, schedule, cost; a defined way to do everything
  • A physical product: mistakes are expensive and hard to unwind, so standards exist to eliminate risk
  • “The other side’s culture: change is risk, minimize it.” · from Hannah’s writing
“Construction is kind of a dinosaur because it’s very reliant on experience, because there is a lot of risk. It’s a physical product. It’s very hard to fix mistakes… You need that standard to exist in order to eliminate the risk, because the risk is very real on the construction end.”Hannah Garrett · 6:01
Key moments
  1. Is the agile mindset right for this world? “There’s a lot of ego involved… they did build amazing things, and they have billions of dollars backing them. But they’ve never worked with physical products like this, where there is real consequence to change, and things are starting to break.” 8:12
  2. Why delayed projects keep surprising everyone: “The people actually doing the work have very little say when a change comes down… those conversations are not happening. So the product is delayed, and everyone’s looking at the delivery folks like they did something wrong, when in reality, this conversation was never had.” 10:15
  3. The language gap: “risk” and “change order” are heavy words in construction and light ones in software. “This is a big gap in our industry… I’m just not sure who’s going to be the first one to have that conversation.” 11:26
  4. Her fix for the whiplash effect: both sides own change; tech runs real change management (“if this delays the project, is this change still worthwhile?”), delivery beefs up how changes get processed. “If you have a structure in place, it’s a lot easier.” 13:20
A number worth noting

The “roughly half of U.S. data centers slated to open this year are delayed or cancelled” figure comes up at 8:59 as a widely circulated industry estimate, cited from memory in conversation. Treat it as directional rather than precise.

Chapter 03 · 15:14

Structure Before AI

Orion channels the techie (“we’ll 5D-BIM the whole data center, build a world model, let AI forecast everything in real time”), and Hannah answers with the episode’s central argument: AI doesn’t fix an operation. It amplifies whatever operation you already have.

“AI does not fix things, and I think that’s a misconception. It doesn’t fix things, it amplifies things… So it’s really important to set the structure first.”Hannah Garrett · 17:52

The cautionary tale

Ford automated quality control, laid people off, then rehired the engineers because the automation missed the usual culprits. “They’re trying to simplify it before they understand it.” 16:19

The reality of the build

By “structure” she means the operational structure: what actually goes into building a data center: 40-plus stakeholders, different SMEs per system, all interconnected. Understand it before you automate it. 17:52

The playbook

“Sit down with some of the best PMs and understand how they run a project start to finish… you can boil it down to a science”: stages, stakeholders, change management, escalations. Map it end to end. 19:25

Key moments
  1. What she hires for in this environment: “Competency is underrated… take initiative, drive things home, be curious, being able to learn and progress easily.” 20:40
  2. On Dorsey’s “hierarchy is an obsolete information-routing protocol”: she can see the central-model future, but “I always call project management the domino for AI: they handle so much complexity. The models definitely have to get better… but it’s definitely possible.” 21:55
  3. How companies get amplification backwards: “They’re handing it to their employees and saying, ‘Hey, use this however you can,’ and setting aggressive goals… people spin off in silos. They’re accelerating something, but you don’t know that that something is meaningful.” 23:11
“With five projects you can communicate with everyone involved. When you 10x that to fifty, communication between all those teams is impossible… If companies don’t insert a system before they have that scale, it’s chaos: people are burnt out, they’re in a ton of meetings, you’re having billion-dollar decisions determined in Slack channels. If you implement a good system before you grow, you can grow and scale easily without adding risk.”Hannah Garrett · 24:19 · “chaos is a report card”
Don’t miss The Ford story (16:19–17:21) and the chaos-report-card run (24:03–25:39): the two strongest stretches of the episode, each landing the thesis in under 90 seconds.
Chapter 04 · 25:39

Structure Without Bloat

The devil’s-advocate chapter, asked from our audience’s side of the table: project controls already documents everything. Isn’t that exactly how you end up with bureaucratic complexity? Hannah’s answer is a line to keep: standardize everything that should be standard, so people have energy left for what genuinely requires judgment.

“It’s all about meeting in the middle, structure with flexibility. There should be one way to hold meetings, one way to take meeting notes… Every time you have to think, ‘How do I want to do this?’, that creates a decision, and it repeats on every project. Create a standard for everything that should be standardized, so you have more energy to focus on what requires that flexibility.”Hannah Garrett · 26:02

The studs-and-drywall rule

“You need to put the studs up before you put the drywall: that’s a standard, it’s always going to be that way. But depending on the code, or what the owner wants, the type of drywall might change. Structure, with a little flexibility.” 27:05

Experience vs framework: “both are right”

“Right now, experience is leading the way… But if you can boil it down to more of a science and reduce some of that complexity, you can hire people who are still as competent but don’t have as much experience, because the roadmap is laid out for them. Widen the hiring pool.” 28:10

Key moments
  1. The talent cliff is real: a hollowed-out middle, few juniors entering, and heavy turnover. “We have to learn how to teach the new generation in a different way than we’ve ever done before… A good PM gets burnt out and leaves a huge hole, a lot of risk for the business.” 29:57
  2. Why PMs burn out: “You’d be surprised how much administrative load they’re taking on: reporting, status updates, chasing people for updates… And you’d think, ‘Oh, have we not automated this?’ And we haven’t.” 31:12
  3. Orion’s EHR analogy: doctors who retired rather than become documentation clerks. The same burden is landing on PMs now. Hannah: “I think you nailed it.” 32:09
  4. The tool paradox: delivery teams beg “no new tools, please” while leadership buys systems that track every data point. “It sounds counterintuitive, but if you simplify the system, you’re going to get better data… an overly robust system that tracks everything gets you a bunch of data that never gets updated.” 33:10
Don’t miss The EHR analogy and Hannah’s “no new tools” riff (32:09–34:40): a mid-episode highlight on burnout, administrative load and why simpler systems win.
Chapter 05 · 36:29

Visibility & the Central Workplace

The longest and most concrete chapter of the episode: 18 minutes on what leaders should actually be able to see. Portfolio health in five minutes, qualitative signals over vanity KPIs, the contractual walls nobody can tear down, the internal walls everybody could, and the central platform Hannah has never seen built.

“We keep going back to, ‘We just need a new dashboard to show this and this’, but we’re ignoring that it’s the quality of the data that’s missing. A new dashboard gets spun up every day. At the end of the day it’s the reliance of the data, and tracking what’s important.”Hannah Garrett · 37:06

Her four steps for taking over a portfolio

1 · Live source of truth

One central place showing every project, its lifecycle stage and its risks: live, not assembled for a meeting.

2 · Define “perfect”

Write the standard for what perfect looks like, then have PMs gap-check their actuals against it.

3 · Look for context

Where are unexpected costs coming from? Which teams are falling behind? What decisions are being avoided?

4 · Lessons, fed back

Pull lessons learned into the tracking system as checkpoints and prompts, so the roadmap improves itself.

From Hannah’s writing, walked through on-air at 41:26–44:02 · “You have to understand the process end-to-end, get to know everyone involved, then find the gaps… If you continuously do that, you become a great PM.”

Key moments
  1. Measure the qualitative: “How many of your PMs are quitting? How much repeat business are you getting? Are client calls actually going well? It’s a sense of ease versus a sense of chaos and tension.” 39:47
  2. The contractual walls: owner → leaseholder → general contractor. “There’s no contract between the GC and the owner… they’re not privy to that information. I do think it’s going to limit us, but I don’t see a way around it.” 44:54
  3. The walls we could remove: “Take one project at an owner: physical security, architectural, delivery, all these internal teams, and internally they have no visibility into what the other teams are doing… We should have extreme transparency amongst internal teams before we even talk about external ones.” 46:28
  4. Why the simple fix never ships: “We like making incremental improvements, but we don’t want to shake the boat… it’s a huge change, and I don’t think anyone wants to be the one to make it.” Plus the quiet ego tax: “How stupid would they feel coming up with the idea to use this very simple tool? It’s not an ego thing, but it is.” 49:59
  5. Orion’s confession from the controls side: RBS, WBS, CBS, OBS; “at some point you step back and you’re just like, what have we done? We’ve created all this entropy, and we’re just trying to build five data centers.” Hannah: keep the skeleton whole, drop the side missions: “‘We need a RACI for this’: if the process is built out start to finish, a lot of that is really not needed.” 51:40
  6. Where it lands: keep construction’s hierarchy where risk demands it, take tech’s leanness everywhere else, “finding the best of both worlds and combining them.” 54:43
“When I was at Meta, what we realized very quickly is there’s no good way to see the status of all your projects in one place. There’s no central platform. And this is what I will harp on until the day that I die: you need a central workplace… I really like simple systems, Asana, Monday; they can be set up to handle the complexity. What’s important is that it’s all in one place. And that does not exist today. I’ve never seen it done.”Hannah Garrett · 48:54
Don’t miss “The central workplace” (48:27–49:54): her most quotable conviction, and the stretch most likely to travel among PMO and project-services audiences.
Chapter 06 · 54:55

The Takeaway & Advice

Acts III and IV arrive compressed and strong: the one idea to leave with, what leadership should do on Monday, and direct advice for students and career shifters, the audiences this show is built for.

The takeaway (55:16)

“Pain points are a symptom of something bigger going on. It’s like having a stomachache: you don’t just continue to have a stomachache, you figure out what’s causing it and get to the root of the issue. And it’s more important than ever, because AI is going to come in and amplify everything: it’s going to exacerbate the issues you already have. Now’s the time to drive a more strategic approach to operations and clean up your systems.”

For leadership

Be bold, top-down

“Don’t shy away from those conversations, and be bold about it. This is not the time to try and make everyone happy. Come up with a strategic roadmap that looks nothing like the past ten years… The solution has to be different than it ever was before.” 58:14

For students

Don’t fear AI: wield it

“Get to know it. It’s a massive tool for you… use it for your passion projects, use it at work, and really use it as your biggest pitch. There’s a huge opportunity to excel in the workplace right now if you can grasp it.” 59:28

For career shifters

The door is open

“There’s a ton of opportunity. If you’re really good at seeing things end-to-end and managing chaos, we’re definitely looking for you; I’ve never seen this side hire so much.” 1:00:10

Key moments
  1. Orion’s synthesis: “clean up our systems” has been a 20-year drumbeat nobody acted on because nothing broke. “AI is going to force that change, and it’s going to have to happen fairly rapidly.” 56:03
  2. Hannah on where change starts: “It wasn’t a priority in leadership’s eyes, and it has to be top-down… to completely shift the way that everyone else thinks.” 56:58
Chapter 07 · 1:00:33

Books, Speed & the Moment

The wrap-up chapter that refused to wind down: a bookshelf question reignites the conversation into its best riff: complexity used to be a moat; AI drained it; the new moat is speed.

Hannah’s bookshelf & signals

The book
The Hard Thing About Hard Things · Ben Horowitz. “A no-BS way of going about being a CEO… every manager should read it and see themselves as their own CEO.”
The story she loves
Horowitz realizing his PMs all worked differently, so he wrote one doc: “Good Product Manager / Bad Product Manager.” “It was basic. It was direct. It was transformative… Back to basics is definitely a theme for me.” 1:02:18
Also
Shoe Dog (Phil Knight) · “how you handle that amount of chaos”; The AI Rundown newsletter for staying current.
Her habit
“I don’t really believe what I hear; I’ll just give Claude a new prompt and see what happens. We live in an era where action beats research sometimes. Just test it out.” 1:00:44

The closing riff

Complexity as avoidance
Orion: people reach for P6 and better node connections when the honest fix is a one-pager and a whiteboard. 1:03:32
The moat flips
“Complexity has been companies’ moat, ‘you can’t understand what we do, how will you compete?’ Now you have AI, so you can figure it out. That’s no longer a moat.” 1:04:20
The org-chart tax
“Look at how many layers of middle management. That’s complexity. That’s reducing speed… founders with a laptop and Claude are getting things done by lunchtime, while it takes these companies six months to get through the layers of approval.” 1:06:16
The moment
Orion’s in-between-ages meditation, and Hannah’s answer to it: “The solutions that worked yesterday are not going to work today, so experience is no longer a barrier.” 1:07:47
“I think now the moat is speed. And ironically, the faster you are, the less complex… It’s all about finding the signal in the noise, and reducing all that extra layer of complexity.”Hannah Garrett · 1:04:20
Don’t miss “The new moat is speed” (1:04:20–1:07:10): Hannah’s moat riff, paired with the founders-and-their-laptop image. The episode’s late-breaking best.
Wrap-Up · 1:10:00

Closing & Links

The episode closes warm and quick: where to find Hannah, mutual thanks, done in a minute. Below, every link mentioned in or relevant to the episode.

“My Substack is The Bigger Vision; that’s where I break down macro perspectives within my industry and in general. But also just follow me on LinkedIn, send me a note. I do have some cool things coming up.”Hannah Garrett · 1:10:21

Highlights at a glance

Three moments to start with

  • The meteor overnight 2:01
  • The Ford story 16:19
  • Chaos is a report card 24:03

If you work in a PMO

  • “Have we not automated this?” 31:12
  • The central workplace 48:27
  • The four-step portfolio takeover 41:26

The closing run

  • The new moat is speed 1:04:20
  • Advice for students & shifters 59:14
  • “Experience is no longer a barrier” 1:09:13

Links from the episode

The episode

Released
Episode 024 · Sep 15, 2026
Watch
Main episode on YouTube (53 min) · Bonus on YouTube (11 min)
Bonus · 11 min
The New Career Moat Is Speed, the closing riff on complexity, AI and why experience is no longer a barrier: Podbean · Apple Podcasts · Spotify · YouTube

Hannah Garrett

LinkedIn
linkedin.com/in/hannahegarrett · “send me a note.”
The Bigger Vision
thebiggervision.substack.com · her writing on operating models and AI readiness, including “You Can’t Automate Chaos” and “Complexity is the Enemy.”

The episode bookshelf

The book
The Hard Thing About Hard Things · Ben Horowitz. Plus the essay that story comes from: “Good Product Manager / Bad Product Manager.”
Also mentioned
Shoe Dog · Phil Knight; and The Rundown AI newsletter for staying current.

About the host

Orion Matthews · Founder, Queryon · PMO data & analytics for billion-dollar portfolios · LinkedIn

Quick Reference

Quote Bank

The best on-the-record lines, gathered in one filterable place. “Highlight” marks the lines most worth scrubbing back for; timestamps are approximate.

The Meteor Moment 0:35–5:16

  • Highlight“It definitely felt like a meteor overnight… Before, it was like, ‘Oh, I work on data centers,’ and they’re like, ‘What is a data center?’, and you have to explain the cloud.”Hannah Garrett · 2:01
  • “Was the industry prepared? Absolutely not… It’s tech companies taking on a bigger role in infrastructure and construction, and construction companies trying to keep up with tech.”Hannah Garrett · 2:38
  • “All these themes we’re going to talk about today, I’m super passionate about, but no one’s really talking about them.”Hannah Garrett · 4:39

Opposite Organisms 5:16–15:14

  • Highlight“Construction is kind of a dinosaur because it’s very reliant on experience, because there is a lot of risk. It’s a physical product… You need that standard to exist to eliminate the risk, because the risk is very real.”Hannah Garrett · 6:01
  • “They did build amazing things, and they have billions of dollars backing them. But they’ve never worked with physical products like this, where there is real consequence to change, and things are starting to break.”Hannah Garrett · 8:12
  • “The people actually doing the work have very little say when a change comes down… So the product is delayed, and everyone’s looking at the delivery folks like they did something wrong, when in reality, this conversation was never had.”Hannah Garrett · 10:15
  • “What we’re having is a whiplash effect… If you have no structure, it takes a long time for changes to get processed. If you have a structure in place, it’s a lot easier.”Hannah Garrett · 13:20

Structure Before AI 15:14–25:39

  • Highlight“AI does not fix things, it amplifies things. If you give it a good prompt, it’ll give you really good information back… So it’s really important to set the structure first.”Hannah Garrett · 17:52
  • Highlight“They ended up rehiring a lot of the engineers because the automation was not catching the usual culprits… They’re trying to simplify it before they understand it.”Hannah Garrett, on Ford · 16:19
  • “I always call project management the domino for AI: they just handle so much complexity.”Hannah Garrett · 21:55
  • “Competency is underrated… take initiative, drive things home, be curious.”Hannah Garrett · 20:40
  • Highlight“If companies don’t insert a system before they have that scale, it’s chaos: people are burnt out, they’re in a ton of meetings, you’re having billion-dollar decisions determined in Slack channels.”Hannah Garrett · 24:19

Structure Without Bloat 25:39–36:29

  • Highlight“Create a standard for everything that should be standardized, so that you have more energy to focus on what requires that flexibility.”Hannah Garrett · 26:02
  • “You’d be surprised how much administrative load they’re taking on: reporting, status updates, chasing people for updates… And you’d think, ‘Oh, have we not automated this?’ And we haven’t.”Hannah Garrett · 31:12
  • “It sounds counterintuitive, but if you simplify the system, you’re going to get better data.”Hannah Garrett · 33:10
  • “If you can boil it down to more of a science and reduce some of that complexity, you can hire people who are still as competent but don’t have as much experience… Widen the hiring pool.”Hannah Garrett · 28:10

Visibility & the Central Workplace 36:29–54:55

  • Highlight“There’s no good way to see the status of all your projects in one place… This is what I will harp on until the day that I die: you need a central workplace.”Hannah Garrett · 48:54
  • “A new dashboard gets spun up every day… when at the end of the day, it’s really the reliance of the data, and tracking what’s important.”Hannah Garrett · 37:06
  • “We should have extreme transparency amongst internal teams, at least, before you start talking about external teams.”Hannah Garrett · 46:28
  • “At some point, you step back and you’re just like, what have we done? We’ve created all this entropy, and we’re just trying to build five data centers.”Orion Matthews · 51:40
  • “Make sure the skeleton is whole… ‘Oh, we need a RACI for this’: if you have the process built out start to finish, a lot of that is really not needed.”Hannah Garrett · 52:44

The Takeaway & Advice 54:55–1:00:33

  • Highlight“Pain points are a symptom of something bigger going on… AI is going to come in and amplify everything: it’s going to exacerbate the issues you already have. Now’s the time to clean up your systems.”Hannah Garrett · 55:16
  • “Come up with a strategic roadmap that looks nothing like the past ten years… The solution has to be different than it ever was before.”Hannah Garrett · 58:14
  • “Don’t fear AI, get to know it… use it for your passion projects, use it at work, and really use it as your biggest pitch.”Hannah Garrett · 59:28

Books, Speed & the Moment 1:00:33–1:10:00

  • Highlight“Complexity has been companies’ moat… Now you have AI, so you can easily figure it out. That’s no longer a moat. I think now the moat is speed, and ironically, the faster you are, the less complex.”Hannah Garrett · 1:04:20
  • “You have founders with their laptop and Claude getting things done by lunchtime, while it’s taken these companies six months just to get through the layers of approval.”Hannah Garrett · 1:06:16
  • “The solutions that worked yesterday are not going to work today, so experience is no longer a barrier.”Hannah Garrett · 1:09:13
  • “It was basic. It was direct. It was transformative… Back to basics is definitely a theme for me.”Hannah Garrett, on “Good PM / Bad PM” · 1:02:18