The Road In
welcome to the Major Project podcast. I'm your host, Orion Matthews. In this pod, we are learning from people that work on projects over a billion dollars, trying to tease out lessons and learnings from these big endeavors. And today my guest is Christina Robinson, and she has been 14 years in the project control industry across utilities, energy complex infrastructure.
She's been a top advisor to owners and project sponsors on how to structure controls and how to set up your governance for real world delivery conditions. So Christina, welcome to the podcast.
Hi. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
So today we're gonna talk about engaging the younger generation, which I am very excited to get into this episode because, at the last conference that Christina, you and I were both at it was really obvious that the demographics of our industry are tilted. And that, and we're, I'm not sure where the younger generation is gonna come in. So [00:01:00] this conversation I think is gonna be really important one to have and I'm really looking forward to diving in.
Before we get started on that, maybe we can learn a little bit more about you, Christina, how you got into the project space and a little bit about your sort of start and career.
So, um, actually my introduction to energy, oil and gas was when I was in college. I had an internship with bp. Um, BP was doing a partnership with the Texas Southern University, which is my alma mater right here in Houston, Texas.
And they wanted to get more students engaged. They wanted to engage more of the younger generation. And this was one way that they felt. Um, would be advantageous for not only just the organization as a whole, but as the, uh, for the school, right? So that these students can have real world experience, but then have a path forward that they may not have thought about to begin with.
Because I can tell you I never thought about oil and and gas, right? My, uh, initial, um, degree plan was to get a degree in, in management and move to the law school, right? Um, I actually had a professor, Dr. [00:02:00] Conway, I will never forget her. She's the most extremely introverted professor I've ever met. But she pulled me aside after, after class one day and she says, I want you to change your major.
And I was like, why? I was like, well, how do you know what's my, I went to go pull it up. Now mind you, this, like I told you, she's extreme introvert and she, um, was, I can't remember what accounting course it was, but it was an accounting course. And she says, well, you are one of my brightest students and I feel like I would be doing you a disservice if I didn't tell you or guide you and let you know that you need to change your major.
She's like, you have a lot of talent and management is fine, but it's more considered to be like general studies. And so, I did a poll at school. I did a poll at school and I was like, what do y'all think for the people who are in accounting? What do you think? And they're like, no, don't do it. Don't do it.
And so something told me, don't listen to them. They have no real world experience. They're just like you. So I changed my major to a county. And that was one of the ways in which I was able to get into the oil and gas industry. Once, um, BP had, um, somewhat of a partnership with TSU.
As you can imagine going to, um, BP at the time they had this brand new building, I think it was like LED, awarded and all kinds of stuff, right? Yeah. So I drive up in my little hoopty, right? I in my little hoopty and I through the parking garage. And I had never seen anything like this before. You know.
And so I get in there and, um, the department that I was in was right next to the trade floor. So you [00:03:00] walk in there and there's, maybe 50 people on the trade floor and they all have six big ginormous screens. And I was like, what is this? So through that experience, learning a lot about, you know, how we get power, how we get gas and fuel into our vehicles, that was like the foundation.
I was a startup and I was like, well, this is really interesting because now I can say, oh, you know, I was a part of how you turn your lights on, or, I was a part of, you know, you fueling your, your vehicles right. Even though I wasn't necessarily doing the actual, building of things. And so, um, from there I got my first big girl job, uh, with kinder Morgan, uh, liquids terminals.
And my, uh, supervisor, his name is Keith Knighton. And he was probably the most patient, most patient supervisor I have ever had. Right. And he was probably, uh, the best one that I can think of you know, throughout my career as a a, a regular W2 employee. Right. Um, and so I remember he took me out to lunch my first day and he [00:04:00] says, my wife and I, we were talking and, you know, I, I feel like I need to help you develop professionally, but not just professionally, but, you know, help you on the technical side because he was an engineer and uh, a chemical engineer to be exec.
And he transitioned to project control. So he was the new manager. They were, you know, resource loading this entire department. And here I am, a fresh college student, you know, only a little bit of experience with oil and gas, but not a whole lot. 'cause I just had an internship. That was it. And so he took a shot.
He took a shot on me. Yeah. He, he, and he helped to, he really helped to develop me during that time. That was probably the longest job I ever had. I'm not gonna lie to you, it's the longest. Um, but that was my start. It was project controls. I was a project control specialist and, um, I learned all of the foundational concepts in terms of major projects and project controls, right.
So I tell everyone, and I, I know a lot of people in the industry can agree with this, that coming into this [00:05:00] particular industry, you absolutely need hands on site work. Yeah. Right? Yeah. It doesn't have to be every day, right? 'cause we know that the things have changed in terms of, you know, hybrid and flexible work and all that.
But you absolutely do need to go on site because there are certain nuances that you learn. Onsite that you otherwise wouldn't get if you were at home or in the corporate headquarters, you're just not gonna get it. Right. And unfortunately he found that out with, um, a guy that, that came to work with us from a, another major organization and he was used to, you know, we have a book Right.
Right. With all of the, you know, to-dos. And the process is to get those done. Well with a liquid terminal, with a brand new department you wouldn't have that. Right. We were doing everything, we built everything scratch. Right. So, needless to say, he didn't last long because there was this shift. Right. And that's when I learned you need to be here first.
Right. To really get a grasp on how things are ran, how everything is connected, and you know, how you play a role in making sure that the projects are successful. [00:06:00] And so, yeah, that was how I got my start in project controls and I've been in there ever since.
Wow. Well, thank you for, thank you for that story.
What, what kind of I would love to highlight from that is kind of ties into our conversation about engaging the younger generation. How you showed that, how you were engaged, which really sounds like people that had a lot of experience, took a chance with you, how you were sort of, you were pushed into the field a little bit, and through internships, things like that. So that's a really kind of great conversation starter for our topic today. Yeah. And maybe we can just start from the beginning and I'll ask the question, do we have a youth engagement slash demographic crisis and project controls and why? If so,
yes. Um, yes we do.
And I believe why is because a couple things. Um, there is a knowledge transfer gap, right? Um, but then there's also the way in which we work now. It's very different. Right? So the, uh, the Gen Xers, the Gen Zers, they saw how [00:07:00] their millennial or, uh, I can't remember the, the generation came before the millennials.
Um, not the baby boomers, but the, the ones right after that, my, my parents generation. And so they saw how those people struggled and or maneuvered through corporate life. And so they're very steadfast on not doing that, not going the same route. But also social media is really big now, right?
And people have made full on careers and incomes out of social media. So it's like, well, why would I do this hard work that doesn't necessarily, um, give me the same gratification that social media would. So I think there's a couple components to that, and I don't have all the answers, but just based on what I've observed myself and then, knowing and being very close to these younger generations, they are absolutely not having it.
Right. And so, and so for them, they're very money motivated, right? Uh, social media has programmed them to [00:08:00] see only the finished product, but not all the work that came before it. Mm-hmm. Um, and I agree with them in the sense that you can work smarter without working harder, and I've, but I've been that way my entire life.
I'll come in and I'll observe if you bring me on board or if you bring us on board, if you bring my advisory on board, do not expect us to jump into the chaos with you. Uh, reason being is because we jump in the chaos with you. We now become part of the problem that you were trying to solve.
Instead of being the solution. So come in, make those observations, and then understand from start to finish what things look like, where the disconnects are, and then, you know, how we can solve those issues and fill in the gaps within, the break in the process there. In terms of, you know, why, those are the reasons that I can come with, come up with right now, just, you know, thinking about my experiences with them, but then too, you know, they're, they're just not interested in the same things that we're interested in.
Right. And another piece of it is exposure. [00:09:00] So I was fortunate enough that during the time in which I was in school, you know, you had this huge company, I think at the time they were like the number one gas, a natural gas producer in the world, right? Mm-hmm. They came to our school, our small school. And wanted to do a partnership and they wanted to introduce the students to this world.
Um, and so if we don't have more of that happening then, 'cause I couldn't tell you, I don't, I don't remember the last time, um, that I heard about any type of partnership like that in that way that it's happened at the university level, at least locally, right? Maybe, at a Harvard or, you know, one of these other schools or OU or something.
So, yeah, there's, there's a need for the engagement to start, but it is gonna take the elders and the more seasoned professionals and experienced people to come down and meet those students and the younger generation where they are, and to show them different perspectives as well as, these are the alternatives, these are other options for you.
What do you think about them? And if you don't like them, what is it about it that you don't like? And how can we make it more appealing to you? Because that's it.
Yes, It’s a Crisis
Well, let's dig on that a little bit. 'cause kind of what I'm hearing from you say is that there's like a cultural misalignment.
You have this generation of folks that have, grown up with TikTok and Instagram and. [00:10:00] That's how you can make money overnight. And then you say, oh, here's a five year billion dollar project that's gonna be a slog. And it's all messed up. Yeah. The culture is almost the opposite of that. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. So
it's like, how do you think culture needs to change to match? Or does it need to change? Do they need to change? Like how do we fix that misalignment? Yeah, like what would be a culture shift that you could see that would be more welcoming to the younger generation?
What are they looking for?
They're looking for easier workflows. They're looking for more flexibility. Obviously the pay. And I think where it used to be, whereas, you could get some, younger people in and they would take, this bottom of the barrel pay just to be in there because that was the, the motivating factor that they would be moving up the ladder.
And then in the millennial generation, they saw how that was, it was a farce. It wasn't really, doesn't
work. Yeah,
it doesn't work, with
layoffs and things like that, it just, there's [00:11:00] no corporate ladder to climb.
The Four Drivers
No.
Yeah.
No. You know, maybe seeing more of that, you know, uh, and then in terms of, when I think about culture, right?
We have to include demographics within that, right? And then the, also the, the leadership style and the actual culture of the organization itself. Um, sorry about that. And so, in terms of, you know, the culture fit for the younger generation, like I said, the easier workflows, flexibility, the money.
But then they require autonomy. And so if they don't have those things, then you don't have a new workforce to replace the ones who are aging out because they require different things. You know, they're, they're not having a bunch of kids, they're not getting married, you know, the marriage rate and, you know, the birth weights, these are down significantly, right?
Um, from generation to generation because they are, [00:12:00] you know, a bit more self-consumed.
But the four things you mentioned, easier workflows, flexibility, pay, and autonomy. Mm-hmm. Are like the four things that me knowing this space feel very immovable. Those are big shifts for us to make in the project Controls as a, process heavy workflow. Very heavy workflow.
Very infl. There's a minds the flexibility, like maybe we can just sort of take each one one at a time. Yeah. The workflow situation, like, what do we do to create better workflows for these people, and what do we really mean by that? Because I imagine the listeners here are like, what it, the flow takes what it takes.
Like what do you think is problematic?
So when I say workflows there's if an organization has been doing one thing the same way for an extended period of time, right? Um, and they have not put any effort into streamlining it or making it easier, better, more efficient. So for example, I always tell a lot of [00:13:00] clients, if you have not invested in your software, you're going to have to heavily invest in your resources, your resource loading, right?
So you don't have to pay them more, because now they have to deal with all of the nuances that come with inefficient programs and systems. A lot of manual input, data entry, data mining. So there's a lot that goes with that, right? And so there's a, there's that trade off. So in terms of, you know, workflows put investing the time and money into the software, right?
Yeah. Body is on this big AI kick.
So embracing technology and upping your budget so that you can actually do it, right?
Yes.
Um, that makes a lot of sense. And that, and that for a digitally native generation, that is basically just breathing air. That's like a mandatory requirement of what you wanna work in.
Yes,
absolutely. Like yeah, getting handed a palm pilot for your first day at work, you're like, I quit. I'm not doing this.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
And then flexibility. Let's talk that. What do you what, unpack that. What's the, what are some ways, so
flexibility, they're not [00:14:00] showing up to the office five days a week.
Get the, and, and the, what I've seen from the older organizations they have, required everyone to be back on site five days a week, right? Yeah. And so, but the, the trick to that is, or the, the caveat with that is that. Now they, they're not the cream of the crop anymore. So people can go elsewhere now because you're not considered to be the top of the food chain anymore.
And so flexibility, you know, would be, maybe they work hybrid or if, you know they need a mental health day or, you know, something like that. Because, you know, traditionally mental health days are non-existent in a lot of oil and gas companies, utilities companies, they don't really think about those kinds of things, especially when you think about the the productivity piece.
Yeah.
Right. So if they're doing a lot of manual labor, data mining, and then they have to go and, you know, spread themselves a hundred different ways, where do they get the mental health days? [00:15:00] Because these generations are very focused on mental health. They're focused on, that self-care movement and all of that, right?
All of that bundles up into how they think about work. If it's anything that is going to impose or have negative implications on those things, they're out. Yeah, they're out. I'm okay. I don't want that. So that's what I mean in terms of, you know, flexibility. Right. But then also being in, with flexibility is being open to other perspectives and ideas and being able to receive those and consider them even if they are from a younger generation, because they have a different viewpoint that we not be, we may not be able to see.
Yeah.
Or we may not even be able to fathom, but that's how new ideas are built and innovated and and implemented into, you know, the organization within itself. Uh, I was talking to a friend of mine last night and he told me that. One company that he worked at as a business analyst over 20 something years ago is still using to this day a macro [00:16:00] that he created for a standing meeting that they had every day.
And he said that he knew that he wasn't gonna be able to get to work on time. And that was a requirement for you to be able to, as soon as you sit down, pull up your reports, right? And he said, well, I know I'm not gonna be the work on time, so I need to figure out what this, what this, how I can make this work.
And so he built the macro and now they still use it 20 some odd years later. And the name that he gave it, which he was just a joke, ha, it has that name, right? So when you consider those things, having new perspectives, alternative ways of viewing and thinking about things, um, should be considered as well, regardless of the age, right?
Of whomever the idea or the information is coming from.
Well, and let me channel something here from the older audience. I can just hear them saying through this conversation of ours, like mental health days, I didn't get mental health days. This is a buck up young generation spoiled thing. But here's a potential retort to that.
Yeah.
It, you know, you could look at the generation prior or two generations prior and say, well, a hundred years ago kids were working in factories and you didn't even have X. So you've got it better than they did a hundred years ago. And they'd say, Hey, that's a hundred years ago. And it's like, you're right.
But [00:17:00] the rate of change is on an asymptotic curve, which means what life was like a hundred years ago. And today, over the next 20 years, we could see that much change happen. Mm-hmm. So it's just sort of like you have to accept that your world is changing quicker now. Yes. So the things that sound ridiculous might just sound ridiculous 'cause we're in a completely new society and we have to adapt.
Yeah. To we can't enforce our perspective on them. Just like people a hundred years ago didn't change the older generation, so this younger generation is going to make these changes.
Yes. It
seems like we have to figure out how to adapt to them, even as quote unquote silly as it might sound that, you know, they need mental health days.
Like that's the new world we're in and there's probably good reasons for it. Maybe we should be more thankful and enjoy those things, right. The older generation, because they said they're probably a good thing. Okay. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, when you think about it, right? Um, and it is, is from generation to generation, it's almost [00:18:00] like it's, it's a repetitive thing that's almost like, um, it's innate or it's, like an unconscious thing that we do.
You know, in my day we had to do X, y, and Z, right? And so you pass it on from generation to generation, but it's like the, the idea is for each generation to get better. Whatever it is that they're doing right. To get better to, to live better. And, you know, it, that work life balance, um, that's a twofold thing.
But you know, people now even the older generation, they are applauding the younger generation for their tenacity in terms of how they're moving about their careers, professions, what have you. Um, because they feel like they didn't have a chance or an opportunity to do same thing, or it wasn't the norm.
Right. And so, even myself, you know, as a, a younger person, you know, when I was in college and even when I was in high school, and I think about it, I've always had an alternative view. In 2015, I said to a couple friends of mine, even [00:19:00] to my boss at the same time, I said, there's no reason why our work is about.
90% on a computer. And we have to come to an office every day to look at each other. Yeah. The same work. And then what happened in 2020? Everyone was forced to be at home, which means that if corporations wanted to, they would.
Yeah.
They were forced to do it. They would. And so it just kind of, it, it, when you think about the, the landscape of what that looks like I keep telling everyone that people are trying to go back to the way that things were pre COVID.
It is never going to happen. It is never gonna happen. As much as you wanna force it, you, you think it's gonna happen. You're gonna pray it in, it's not gonna happen. And so now we have to work with where we are now and moving forward. What does that look like? And so the, the older generation would, you know, they would gawk and laugh at mental health days, but these also the same people with, you know, diabetes, high blood [00:20:00] pressure, uh, high cholesterol, you know, and maybe they even may be on, you know, different type of, you know, mental health what you call anger management.
It's, one of those things like, if you don't start to take care of yourself at, at a younger age and, and, and using that as a rubric for how you move through life, then you're gonna find yourself one day being that old person who is now looking back like, man, I coulda would've.
You did it.
Yeah. And I think the younger generation has more access to seeing how the story unfolds than ever before. Before you were like. In a bubble. You didn't have the internet, you could just kinda like do your thing. And now there's a big emphasis on preventative care from the healthcare industry.
And then also you can go on TikTok and get advice from people that are dying. You can get advice from older generations. You can see what happens when you know you have a stroke, whatever. All these things, when I was a teenager, like I had no access to a lot of that stuff. And so, I do think that those things have informed a different [00:21:00] perspective where people, where younger people are more in touch with how the story goes than ever before.
And yeah, and we've changed the way we think about healthcare in the country to try and emphasize preventative. So yes. Well just jumping, so there's pay and autonomy. So for. Pay. I think we're just paying people too low. Is that, I think that's right. Kind of what it comes down to
When they're younger, you automatically associate them with not having any responsibilities. You know, or you only have to worry about yourself. You don't need that much money, right? Mm-hmm.
Not
true. Yeah. Not true. Because the things that you see on the service may not be there. And then the autonomy piece they want to be able to move about as they choose still with the idea that work is going to be done, we're going to do that.
Mm-hmm. Be
able to move about as I choose to. Right. And again, this was this was, uh, part of the whole 20 20, 20 21 landscape. People were, um. At first they were afraid and they were like, well, hell, there's nobody on the plane. I might as well get on there. I'll be the only [00:22:00] one. Right? Yeah. Everybody else is at home.
I'm gonna be on the plane and I'm gonna travel and do all these things and I can work from anywhere. And then I, I did want to mention this. Um, there's a certain level of control that the older generation would like to have that the younger generation is just not having.
Mm-hmm.
Right. So when we talk about autonomy, control is a piece of that because they're like, you can't control what we do, what we say, how we dress, you know, how we wear our hair, nails, you know, you see all the elaborate nails and stuff everywhere. Now people are going back to expressing themselves without the thought of judgment from anyone else.
It's like, either you want what I have or you don't. I love it.
Yeah,
I've been preaching this thing for a long time, and I feel like people are finally starting to recognize it and understand what I've been saying because people used to think I was batshit crazy, right?
They did. They used to think that I was crazy when I would have these alternative viewpoints, right? I'm also the person that I don't care who it could be, the [00:23:00] CEO of the company. I'm gonna talk to 'em just like I'm gonna talk to you, right? Mm-hmm. Most people are like, oh my God, do you know who you're talking to?
Okay. Alright.
Yeah.
What's next? They bleed if I, if I cut them, what? They bleed. All right then they're just human, just like me. They just have a title, that's all.
Yeah. So they have a different perspective on on status and sort of deference to authority, things like that kind of ties into wanting autonomy, like we're all just people here.
Um, so okay, I really wanna get into some concrete steps, but before we do, I, I think what we maybe could do is say, okay, these are the things that the younger generation needs to engage them. Now the question is, why engage them at all? Is there an ROI for an organization, like we've talked about the stick, which is like, you won't have any workers, but what's the carrot?
What happens if an organization gets easier workflows, more flexible, pays more embraces autonomy, creates a more open culture.
Mm-hmm.
What's the ROI
You get a happier organization, right? I think there's been this misconception that the more miserable people are within the organization, the harder their work to prove [00:24:00] themselves.
Not anymore. People are not self-loathing or, uh, being sacrificial lambs anymore, right? Mm-hmm. And so the return on investment is number one. Obviously you're gonna make more money, right? The happier people are, I think it was, um, the old, the former CEO of Google, or it was someone, and I remember he said I'm not interested in how long people stay with me, right?
I'm not interested in that. What I'm more interested in is that they're happy doing the work that they're doing here, and I'm getting the best value out of them that I can get while they're here with me, right? Yeah. So the thought process around controlling how long a person does work for you or how long they work for you, uh, that thought process goes out the window.
Now we see what Google is today. But it, that mentality came from top down. So that means that, hey, we don't know how long you're gonna be here. We don't care how long you're gonna stay. We just wanna make sure that when you're here, we are getting the best value out of you that we can get.
Which is why they had, you know, they have [00:25:00] everything at Google when they go to the Google offices, right? Restaurants, uh, gyms, daycare centers, you know, all kinds of things, right? They had, they make it to where a person wouldn't necessarily need to leave, so to speak. Right. It's a psychological thing too, right?
Yeah. Wouldn't need to leave because everything that you could possibly need at the bare minimum with some extras is already here. So what do you need? Yeah. What else can we get you? Right? So. I believe that taking that type of spirit to different organizations, uh, because like I said, I think there's been this, uh, misconception and this reputation that's been built around, specifically oil and gas companies, the older ones, is that we're the cream of the crop and everybody is going to, everybody wants to work for us and serve us.
Oh, well, your little cousin data center is now coming, so good luck with
The ROI of a Happier Workforce
that. Yeah. And you know, it's interesting they've done those studies to look at, you know, the quadrants of like what people are good at and what they're passionate about versus just what they're good at, but not passionate about, um, versus like, [00:26:00] they're not very good at.
And it's like, okay, if you're not good at something, you get negative productivity. If you're good at something but you're not happy, you get one X. And if you're good at something and you are excited about it and passionate you, it's a 10 x. So if you can move people into that 10 x like you're talking about where it's like Google is like, I don't know how long you're gonna be here, but while you're here, you're gonna get 10 x out of them.
Yeah. Um, so it makes a lot of sense if you can sort of bring people into the, into that quadrant of happy and passionate about their work and they're good at it. Yeah. And so would you say then when we talk like, okay, so I, let's say I'm a manager at, uh. Corporation, yo Fortune 500. I'm looking at this saying, Christina's right?
I need to make some changes here. What are some concrete ways that I could go about introducing these things for the team, do you think?
So you would know your team, right? You would know your team. You would know if or at least you should know. Let me not say that. You should know your team and you should know what makes them tick, right? You should also know where they're struggling, right? Um, but then also where they're excelling, right?
[00:27:00] So, if you know these things, then you would know how to roll this out, right? How frequent how soon, uh, the timeline would be. Basically an average of the people that are on your team. And you figure out, based on what you know about them, what would be the most beneficial for all of them as collective, but then individually as well.
Because for example, I know someone who has, you know, a couple people that work for them and one of them has a little kid. Right? They have a little kid. They're not gonna have the same availability as someone who has grown children or self-sufficient children or who doesn't have any at all.
And so some people may look at it as special treatment, but this is just a different scenario of circumstances that's associated with this person. So it's not necessarily special treatment, but it's what comes along with the territory with this person versus the other.
Do you think that you need to start at the C-suite for some of these changes?
That it needs to come from like
the top down,
the leadership pyramid down? What would that look like for an [00:28:00] org? If let's zoom up and say, I'm like the CEO, or, in the leadership circles, like how do I create a better cultural situation for the younger generation to come into?
Hmm.
Go to them first. That would be the first thing, because you can make as many assumptions and guesstimates as you want about what it is that they, what you think they want, what you think they need. Go to them first. Talk with them, actually have con have real conversations with them. You know, whether it's, through partnerships with universities or different professional organizations, um, you have to get to them first to know what they're looking for.
And once you get with them, then you go back to the drawing board. You say, okay, well based on what, you know, we've talked about with them, these are the things that they're most interested in if they were going to take the leap. And so then you go in and you see what that will look like internally, and you know how, [00:29:00] obviously you wanna know how it's gonna affect the bottom line depending on what it is.
And then you can do pilot programs, right? So back in the day they used to have rotational programs. Not many of those rotational programs are still alive today. Because I remember they, you know, if you were. An accounting student or uh, something like that, you would, you would go between, um, accounting, finance, and maybe assets.
And then, you know, just as well as engineers and things like that. And so with project controls or just, you know, any, uh, profession having a rotational program, right? That's your pilot to tell you if things are going to work or not, right? That's how you in my opinion, that's how I would test it out.
And then from there, you know, then you slowly start to implement those things, right? And I know that there's this one thing during COVID that kind of shifted people's thought process on remote work. Oh, well, such and such is not doing their work, or they're not doing this, they're not doing that.
They were already not doing it before they got home. Right. They were already late. You know, [00:30:00] deadlines missing them. They were, that that was already a thing. It just became more prevalent. While they were at home. Well, everyone was at home. Now all eyes on you now you can see.
Right. So, starting from the C-suite, getting those pilot programs activated after you've actually gone and interacted with the students. Because if, if I see the CEO of Chevron or Shell or Entergy or someone, someone like that, you know, coming to speak to students, but you have to speak to them at their le at their level.
'cause there are some things they're just not gonna understand. And so there's this human element where you have to get back in, in touch with who you are just as a person, right? Not as the leader of this, you know, multi-billion dollar organization, but as a human first. And I remember in my old business model I used to always say that we do humans first because people have the tendency to forget that the people who [00:31:00] in which we bring on board to these projects, that they're actually humans and not robots and computers, right?
These are actually, these are people who have real lives outside of what we do here, right? So that human aspect and being more down to earth. I think that's, you know, that could be on purpose, but I'm just saying, you, you have to bring the human element back and you're not gonna be able to, to connect if you don't have that.
Yeah. I think that's really good advice. And I think a tip, it's sort of like the social contract between corporations and employees has somewhat broken down compared to like the nineties, where it was like before it was like you got a job at a company and you were, you were good.
You know, like you had a good run five to 10 years. Mm-hmm. Today it's like, Hey, you just started your job at Oracle. Sorry, you just got an email that said you're fired and the door's locked. Like you're out. No recourse, no, like any of that. Like boom, you're done, your career's over, whatever. And [00:32:00] so that's a very, that those things have happened in real time during COVID and before, after.
So I think that, you know, it's like what you have to offer people. Yeah. Is gotta be like right there. Not necessarily like, Hey, you come to work for this mega corp and like in 20 years you could be where I'm sitting and be making a million dollars. It's like people are like, yeah, that's cool. What are you gonna do for me this year though?
And how are you gonna connect with me today because I'm not up for the, the, the Sisyphus journey? Because you keep kicking the rock back down the hill and so they don't have as long, they're not like long-term investors of their time, it sounds like.
Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't, I think that, you know, moving the goalposts is what the millennials saw, right?
Whereas their parents, the goalpost was the goalpost and that was it. You went from A to B2C to D, that was it. But the millennials were able to see how the goalposts kept being moved. [00:33:00] And those promises never came into fruition. And so the younger generations, they're like, oh no, y'all did them like that.
You can't do us like that. No.
Yeah. And a lot of the programs are different too, right? Like, I mean, I know lots of people that are in the older generation that have amazing retirement benefits, right? That came from corporations that, and those just don't exist now. So it's like we've kind of pulled out a lot of those things getting back to your pay comment.
Mm-hmm. So corporations have de-risked their long-term like position on labor. Mm-hmm. And so then labor has de-risked its long-term position on corporations. And so it's sort of a mutual breakdown, I think, of the model. Yeah. Which just means you gotta offer, you gotta offer something now that connects with people.
And not tell them it's coming later is kind of part of it
because they're not waiting for later. That's like bonuses, right. Bonuses, you know, went from like, they were like performance based and then they were, uh, discretionary. Discretionary is the worst kind of bonus to get right. Because if your boss doesn't like you, guess what?
You're not getting a good bonus at all. Yeah. And so, I, I don't know. I [00:34:00] just it's a, a, a tough thing to, to think about, um, how much things have shifted and changed and people's priorities are changing, right? As inflation continues to rise, people are really thinking about what they're spending their dollars on and how much they're making.
And so they're like, well, mm-hmm. How do I find other ways to make more money without having to divest more time or to, um, invest more time? Excuse me. Yeah.
Well, one other, okay. One other thing I wanted to touch on with you, and this might be a little sensitive topic for our audience talk about, but, the experience of sort of discrimination and abuse. Like I have an example of someone I know that maybe experienced some abuse. It was a younger, millennial went in, went into a work situation, experienced I think she had some inappropriate situations, tried to go through hr, whatever, didn't work out, and they're out.
They just quit. They and I think they quit, but they were also extremely confused during that whole process about like, how did this, how did I not get, [00:35:00] like it was just sort of like so unacceptable for them and they just sort of assume the situation would get handled. And I think that the, that's kind of a common experience that, like discrimination before used to be something that was like, we're trying not to do this.
You can go to hr, but you know, like whatever. Right. And it seems like the younger generation has a much lower tolerance for the experience of discrimination and abuse that can happen within office. And maybe you can talk a little bit about that.
The Part Most Panels Skip
Yeah, so, I've had my own experiences. I've had discrimination, uh, against my age.
People don't know my age, they'll guess, um, based on my appearance. But I'm like, just because I look a certain way doesn't mean I'm younger or older. You don't know.
Mm-hmm.
Um, the other thing is social influence, right? I, I remember one time I was working at a, um, energy company in Sugarland and I remember one day I.
The, my manager at the time, she came up to me and asked me if I wanted to go lunch. And I said, oh no, I already have plans for lunch. She was like, oh, I'm just so jealous you have so many friends. [00:36:00] I said, well, you know, if you wanted friends, you go get you some friends. Right. You know, I'm thinking this is, yeah, I go to lunch with my friends.
And then also, um, whenever I was working, um, at these, these corporations, I would, I never met a stranger, ever. So I would know somebody in it. I would know someone in, uh, documents. I would know someone in engineering. I would know someone in construction. I would know someone in accounting, finance, you name it.
I knew somebody everywhere. And I believe that that bothered people when they didn't have the same connection with others and other people weren't drawn to them. Um, and so that was like, well. I've observed some things, and you're kind of one of the mean girls. So of course nobody wants to be around a mean girl, right?
And so if you present yourself as a mean girl and and you're not getting the connectivity with, again, that human element, then you can't be mad at someone else because they are [00:37:00] right. So, discrimination is a real thing. And specifically I'm gonna speak from a black American woman, right? Um, it is a real thing at organizations particularly with white American women, right? Not necessarily the men, but absolutely the women. Sometimes you get a, a male here and there, but it is, it is.
It is. They really don't care. Can you do the job? That's it. That's all they care about. Um, but the women would do things like ask me in inappropriate questions, oh, how many pairs of shoes do you have? Did you get a new car? Right? And, and I would be driving the same car. They just never seen me pull up in that car.
It would be, you know, you know, I mean, so are gonna change a hairstyle or things that had no business being in the space, right? So as a, as a black woman, there has never been a time where I've been in a corporate space where I felt like I could be myself, never. I don't show personal information.
I don't talk about where I [00:38:00] live. I don't talk about my family life. I don't talk about any of those things, right? Because there's always been a point in time where someone was trying to figure it out and then when, when they didn't get what it was that they were looking for, now it would be a, an attack every time.
And it would be subtle, right? It's called microaggressions, right? I'm a very straightforward person. Very, very, this is what it is. And so when people beat around the bush I immediately recognize it and I'm like are, are you going to continue to beat the wrong bush and Bs? Or are you gonna be honest about what's going on?
Right? Um, and so I, I have taught myself and others that it is not a reflection of who you are as a person or your performance or whatever the case is. It's a direct reflection on those people and their own insecurities, right? And so. I've made it a point to be very strategic about who, uh, my company engages with.
Very strategic, right? Because I know those things exist and they're there, right?
Yeah.
Um, one thing that I know to be true is that in almost every organization that I've [00:39:00] seen white American women have been the gatekeepers of income and gatekeepers of jobs at these organizations. They are part of, they are the hr, right?
Even though there's somebody above them, right? So they're controlling who comes in and out. Who gets to come in who leaves, right? And that is a big issue. I had a, a girlfriend of mine who. Her experience was terrible with female manager, white female manager. And this is, this is across the board.
You could, I'm almost certain that you could, you could get a group of a hundred Black American women in one room and they all would have a story about a white American woman who discriminated against them, fired them, laid them off, you know, had un unrealistic, unrealistic expectations, was a mean girl in their experience in corporate America.
Um, yeah, which is one of the main reasons why I left being a W2 earner. I would never go back to that. Because there's a certain level of security that comes with my own business versus being under someone else's umbrella. And so she told me that she would be in meetings or they would have meetings and her boss would make.
Just out of the, out [00:40:00] of the out of box comments about, oh, you know, is that a, is that a Gucci belt you're wearing? Uh, is that, you know, now mind you, she's 20, 20 years in, in, right? Mm-hmm. She's finance, she's a finance genius. And so she's pretty up there. So of course her pay is gonna be up there. She doesn't have any children.
She's married. So it's, it's, it's a bit different, right? And so there's a level of insecurity, jealousy, enviness that comes with that. And so anyway, so she says that the the manager will say these inappropriate things in the meetings, right? And then one day she says in the meeting in front of everyone, don't you just hate her?
Wow.
God. Huh. And so I remember telling her, I said, and she called this woman her friend. I said, that woman is not your friend. She doesn't like you. And she's, uh, she's now recruiting other people to not like you. So that when she does something that is out of line, that is out, out left field that she should be fired for, she now has a [00:41:00] group of people backing her to say the same thing.
And that's what happens for a black woman. I can't speak for the, the, the black man's experience, even though I know it's very similar. But those microaggressions and, it is, it is the most weird thing that I've ever come across. How do you automatically have a disdain for someone that you do not know simply by them just existing?
It is the weirdest most low level thing I've ever seen. I was like, you have got to be crazy, right? To think. In that way about people, you know, nothing about. Yeah. It's, it is, it's weird, right? And so, yeah, so my, I got fired from a couple jobs from, it wasn't performance, right? It wasn't how I addressed it wasn't, you know, me not being kind to coworkers or to staff or to anyone who was in the building.
It was none of that tar, none of that, right? And so, it pissed me off so [00:42:00] bad that I said, I'm never coming back to this kind of situation. I'm gonna formulate my own business and I'll figure it out. And that's what Black American women have been doing since the beginning of time. We will figure it out.
We know how to make a dollar outta 15 cents. So with that being said there has to be, if you want to see black American students the younger generation coming into these organizations. That mentality has to shift and it has to shift quickly. Actually, what I told someone one time on a project that I worked on, I said, you have a virus and if you do not get rid of that virus, you're going to, it's going to infiltrate the entire program.
And sure enough, exactly what I said happened. So then people just started dropping, like flies off the project.
Mm-hmm.
Right? The client was upset that they weren't getting what they quote unquote needed. But then you have this virus that's just running through the department itself. Right? So if you if you truly want to see engagement [00:43:00] from the youth you're going to have to, if their parents are still there, their sisters, brothers, whatever, they're still there.
They need to see these people not be so stressed when they get off work. Right. That's the purpose of having happy hour.
Happy Hour didn't start. Oh no. Happy hour was a way for people who were stressed out at work to have alcoholic beverages, to numb the pain that they were feeling eight hours, 10 hours a day at their jobs.
It's the most, uh, when you think about it, is one of the most interesting things I've ever heard of. And one more point. Get rid of the,
what is it called? There's different organizations that they have at at these companies. The Black Employee Network.
Hispanic Employee Network. I said now it will be different if you had a employee network for each demographic, but you don't, you have it for the people in which you treat the shittiest.
So that they can go and talk [00:44:00] to each other, console each other, get each other together, and come back and still deal with the same crap every day. No, there's a, did you see, I know you've seen it. There's a, they're talking about six, oh, it's 600,000. African American women, you know, who are out of jobs, laid off Litig against.
I was like, but what they're not saying is that a lot of them decided, I'm not going back. Or they decided to start their own businesses. They were doing this, they were doing, or they just like, Hey, I'm just gonna live a soft girl life. I'm gonna let my husband take care of it, right? Mm-hmm. And so and so, I, you lose the creativity.
And to be honest with you, the, the sauce that comes with Black American women, you lose that. When you continuously mistreat them and thinking that they're gonna continue to take it, it's not gonna happen. And as we can see, they're not doing it anymore. Right. And I'm a prime example of what that looks like.
That was, thank you for sharing all of that. That's very raw and I'm very much think that we need to hear it because [00:45:00] as a white American male, I really have only experienced discrimination One time, I think I told you a story where I was in France and I was getting change and they, this guy didn't like Americans.
He slapped the change down on the table. Yeah. And nobody else saw it.
Yeah. They had
to scrape the, the, whatever it was, the franks off the table. Mm-hmm. It was kind of like, it was oddly humiliating, sort of like I wanted to just walk away, but it happened in the moment. It was all these things happened and I, like, I still remember it to this day and that was like one experience.
Whereas you're talking about people that have these regularly and, but like, if I hadn't had that experience, I could easily be in the category of people that are like, oh, this is solved. This doesn't happen anymore 'cause it's, nobody saw that happen to me. Mm-hmm. And I think it's just a, it's a, it's a really great reminder that we have a ways to go and that the younger generation, you know, they've done more of this work Yeah.
Than others. And so they're just not gonna accept it when they come into these spaces. It's [00:46:00] not like, ah, just get over it. This is your job. Yeah. This is just like, it's an untenable thing. And so it's, yeah. I guess for leadership, listening to this podcast, it's like, Hey, you might have a problem and you might not even know it.
And because it's kind of a little bit hidden mm-hmm. From you 'cause of your perspective on the world. And that's, you know, it's really good to hear because I think that you're absolutely right. I mean, you're driving away incredible talent from organizations. Mm-hmm. And I believe, I'm not sure if this is true, I'd be curious your thoughts, but.
I think you're gonna also, I think in the, in the past it was like, you're gonna drive away this demographic, but I think the younger generation is actually gonna quit just seeing another demographic get discriminated against, which is a new kind of attrition. So it's no longer just, oh, we're not gonna get this certain group to work with us.
You're gonna have trouble attracting
Yeah.
Everybody if you have these things happening within your organization. So,
yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it is true. Um, I, at, at this juncture, when I think about when I used to walk into these organizations, I [00:47:00] would be the only one right in my group specifically, or I would be the only one on, on my entire floor.
And I remember when I interned for bp, I remember there was this girl, her name was Brittany. And Brittany had been working at BP for a while, and um, she saw me in the elevator and she says, you work here. I was like, yeah, I'm an intern. And she was like, girl, what's your name? Because it was so few far in between, which means, in my opinion, that's intentional, right?
If you intentionally create these barriers for people to get inside these organizations, right? Or when you do hire them, you pay them significantly less than their counterparts. That's a big issue too, right? And so if these things are going on somebody has to know what's going on. 'cause you look at the what, whether they're reports, right?
And if you're submitting these reports to leadership, they see it. They just don't care, right? And so we're not interested in being invited or having a seat at a table that doesn't want us there anyway, we're gonna go be at our own damn table. [00:48:00] That's what we've been doing. We've been building our own tables, and it feels much better that way, right?
Because now I don't have to deal with the bureaucracy, the discrimination, the politicking and all that. I don't have to deal with that, right? I have my clients, my clients know exactly what value that we bring, and that's it, right? Anything outside of that is none of your business. What problem do you, you have that needs to be solved?
We're gonna come and solve the problem, and then we're gonna go, we're gonna go right. We're gonna get outta there. So, yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that. But I, I do think that that it, I think people are, us in particular, we're tired of having a conversation, so that's why we decided to make other moves, right?
Because it's like, well, you know what's going on and if you actually care, you would do something about it. Right. And since you don't do anything about it, okay, cool. I'm gonna do something about it myself. Yeah. Yeah.
So one, one thing, you know, since we're kind of dealing with like audience objections to some of the things we're talking about, right?
One other objection I think we might hear, touching back on the flexibility of remote work. Mm-hmm. I only say this 'cause we were at a conference and I I think we heard from some leaders during this podcast I was doing where they were [00:49:00] like, you gotta be in the remote work is not a thing That's terrible.
And you even started the conversation saying, you know, you do have to go on site to understand this, this work at the beginning. Maybe you could talk a little bit about how that, like how do we balance those two views? Because people seem to be very strongly feeling like you gotta be in the office.
Mm-hmm. Um, and even you said there is an element of being on site to see what's actually getting built. How for project control specifically, do you think we can strike that balance?
Okay. A couple things, right? Whether you're doing mainly in, in project controls, you're either doing cost or you're doing scheduling within cost, you know, you have your earned value and all that.
And maybe some risk associated, however to bridge those two together again, remember I talked about earlier, there's a control piece there, right? Wanting to control how a person works versus seeing if you see the deliverable, right? [00:50:00] Do you have the deliverable or not? And when I talked about being on site first, you don't have to be there five days a week, right?
You don't have to be on site five days a week. Because what I've seen, and matter of fact, the project that I'm working on now is. You would go on site and you never get anything done because you have 50 million people pulling for you all day long. Oh, let me talk to you. Yeah. Oh, you got, you got five, or let's, let's have a meeting.
Let's do this, let's do that. And so within that, you're never gonna get anything done. And this is a, a known issue, a known problem. Right. Especially with these, open space work environments. Right. Um, I, I thought that was interesting as well. I was like, where are the damn doors? So somebody can close their door and actually get some focused work done.
Right? And you can't do that if, you know, you're just in a cubicle and everybody is, doing this all day. So a happy medium would be to have it hybrid. Right. And then thinking about. For example, um, someone who does safety, the safety needs to be there, right? That's just the way it is.
Safety needs to be there. Anybody who's physically who has physical labor, they absolutely need to be there. There's just like healthcare, right? The, the actual doctors or nurses and, you know, the [00:51:00] patient care assistant, those people have to be there to be hands, hands-on, right? There's no way around that.
But if you're talking about, you're looking at schedules, you're building schedules, you're building cost reports, you're building forecasts, you're building processes and things like that, you don't necessarily need to be in the office to do that all the time, right? But it is good for you to go and see what's happening, so you can go and look at your cost report and validate it against the schedule to see, okay, yeah this makes sense, right?
Because mm-hmm. You know, the PM may not have all the insight, or there may, there may be a communication delay. Right. Or there may be materials delayed from procurement. You know, because people have so many things that are on their list of to-dos that they don't have a chance or the time to get back with you.
As soon as the change happens, as soon as something happens, they don't have it. Right. And so, you know, being able to go onsite to look at the progress or the lack thereof, right? Yeah. And even to engage with the people who are there, because I'm not gonna lie, the field operations people, those are, I love them, field operations people are humans, right?
Site Time vs. Office Time
Yeah.
And they talk to you and they treat you and they engage with you just like [00:52:00] another reed human versus when you go into a corporate headquarters, everybody's buttoned up. They have to be political. Correct. And, you know, they have to show stoicism and leadership and all this kind of stuff.
It's like, can we just do the thing that we came here to do? Cut all that? Yeah. All these facades and masks that you're wearing, let it go. It's not even, I can see through it. I see you. Right. I see you. Yeah, I mean. Having a bit of both I think is great for any, anyone. But you know, I do think that once you reach a certain level that, you know, there has to be, you know, you, you lay the groundwork for that, whether you go in or not.
Right? And so even still to this day, I'll go to a client site and talk with them or whatever the case is. I just know that there is nothing that's going to get done that day, right? I know that there's nothing that's gonna get done. We're gonna sit there and we're gonna be talking. There are gonna be lots of notes and, you know, these things lapse and giggles and all that, but there's nothing that's gonna get done that day.
And so, so yeah, I, I think that's the best way to do it. Have it hybrid, be a bit more flexible because again, um, you want to be able to, and then when you think about it, lemme back up a taste when you think about it. The commute, [00:53:00] the gas, car, maintenance, having to put yourself together.
The time because the the time,
yeah.
The prep time to get there, and then to get there. All of that. Takes apart, right?
Yeah.
And then if you think about, you know, people you know wanna exercise or they wanna do this, they wanna do that, it's gonna be very difficult for them to do because they've used their brain and or their bodies all day.
And by the time they're done with that and they are on that hour long drive home, or hour and a half, 30 minutes, whatever, when they're on their drive home, the last thing that they're thinking about is pouring into themselves. 'cause they've given so much of themselves to someone and something else.
And know mothers can relate to this and some fathers too, right? Yeah. Um,
well, and it kind of ties into that flexibility if you raise and autonomy where you're like, look, here's the job. Here's a bunch of data systems that are working. And hey, if you need to go on site, go on site. If you don't, don't, and get us the forecast for this project.
And so then [00:54:00] they can say. Progress doesn't seem right. I think I'm gonna visit the site next week. And they do, and everything is fine. It is really what it is. And you've, you've given them autonomy, they've taken you up on that, and everything just kind of works a little smoother. And they don't have to be in an office all day long and have a commute and car payments and all the other things.
All the other things. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause it, it really does take a toll on people, um, just in, in their, their entire lives. You know, I, I know a lady who, she had a small child, I think about three years old, excuse me. And, um, she used to be like, I can't make certain events because, I have my kid, you know, what am I, you know, I can't, I, I can't do it.
Right. Because there's so much that goes into prepping the kid, getting the kid in the car, getting to the event, then having to entertain the kid or find something to entertain the child with while you go and do the things that you're supposed to be doing. Yeah. It's too much. Um, because everyone doesn't have a two-parent household.
Some are just single.
Yeah.
And so you, you factor those types of things. And I know people will be like, oh, well [00:55:00] that's not, you know, that's not our fault. Or that's, you know, that's not our problem. Well, actually it is. Once you bring them on board, now it is part of your problem. So you have to make things a bit easier or more convenient because this person's situation, especially if you want them there and they do good work, why would I?
Because it costs more for you to bring someone on board than for you to take care of the ones you already have.
Yeah.
And I think that people have lost this element. Well, I'm, I'm paying you. Yeah. But there's more to it than that. And Google figured that out a long time ago. Right? Yeah.
I need to take a picture out. Yeah. Take a page outta that book.
And it's like, I'm paying you so you must do this Kafkaesque thing that you can't fathom why we have to do it. It's like that's where people are checking out. It's like. You might think you need to re have everyone in the office for productivity gains or whatever, but this generation is looking at that going like, that's not necessary.
And then that single mother that's got a kid is looking at it going like, that's not necessary and I can't make this work. And so the answer of like, well, I'm paying you to show up and like do it, it, you know, it's just not a [00:56:00] tenable situation for this younger generation. And also with demographics, getting people getting older, there's a lot of people doing elder care now.
So you sort of have that piece, uh, slotting in people just have a lot going on.
Yeah. Yeah. People have a lot going on. And then when you think about it, um, you know, because of, you know, inflation and other factors, you know, people can't afford to, you know, pay someone to go and take care of their elder parents or grandparents or whatever the case is.
Right. So you're gonna be the one doing it. Yeah. And, and you can't, if you can't have flexibility in your work, then you won't be able to do it. And then you make the choice, am I gonna pick the work or I'm gonna pick taking care of them until they transition? They probably don't pick that.
Yeah. And it's, you know, these broad social movements are happening and corporations are just a piece of our social fabric.
They general, they, throughout the ages have always had to follow where society is going. So I think these are, that's maybe the takeaway here is like, look, I didn't make this culture happen. Society is shifting. There's demographic shifts, there's changes in the way people are thinking about [00:57:00] things.
There's, you know, everyone that grew up with the internet has a different way of looking at the world. Like, these things have happened. The corporations can't make a stand against, they're not going to dictate how the society works. So it's really like. Time, time, time to adjust a little bit. And luckily the, the adjustments seem like they're just gonna make work a little bit better for people and less discriminatory, more flexibility.
Get your data systems figured out. Like these are, um, so far the things you're a, you're saying that the youth are looking for. Sound pretty great to me. And just to switch a little bit and flip this around, we've been talking about how to attract the younger generation, but what advice would you have for those younger folks listening to this saying, you know, kind of like this project controls, like major project work.
How can I get engaged in this space? Like what, what advice would you give for someone that's looking to get into this area?
Okay, so I guess there's two parts to that, right? There's the demographic that's in school, and then there's the one that, that isn't in school, right? So for the ones that are in [00:58:00] school, join professional organizations, talk to your career planning and placement directors.
Um, go to those interest meetings. If, if corporations are still going to the schools to engage the youth, go to those meetings, talk to, you know, people that, that, that work for the organization, right? And, you know, invite them to, to lunch or teams call or something like that. You wanna get them in a space where they can be a little bit more candid about the organization as a, as a whole, because that'll help shape your thought process on how to move forward or not to move forward with interest in that organization.
Um, another thing is to find find experienced professionals in your local area. Um, they are gonna be part of those professional organizations. Or they'll be on LinkedIn, right? And I don't know too many people who would say no to a young person asking them, um, for, you know, insight information or just to [00:59:00] have a quick call with them.
And then for the ones that are not in school, right, they have to work a little harder, right? Because the accessibility is not necessarily there. But I would tell them the same thing. Get on LinkedIn, join professional organizations, expand your network. Talk to different people, right? And I always tell people you're about one to two degrees away from whatever it is that you're looking to, to to come into fruition, right?
Whatever that is. Whether it is, uh, a new job or. Uh, a new business opportunity or a mentor or what have you, you are only separated, but one or two degrees. So, you know, start talking, telling people what you're interested in, right? Because I think there's this thing people will ask young folks, oh, well what are you doing?
Are you in school? And if they say no, they're like, okay, well why aren't you in school? Right? Because, you know, school was traditionally the way in which people build wealth, but that's no longer the case anymore. I still think that there's an importance to school or education in and of itself.
I'm not discrediting that. Um, but I do [01:00:00] believe that there are different ways and more efficient ways for you to go about doing such. I always tell everyone, stop sending your children to school for things that they don't need a damn degree in. That's a waste of time and a waste of money. Mm-hmm. Why are you sending your kid to school for art?
Either they're an artist or they're not. That's just, that is a thing. And I know it sounds harsh, but that is the thing. Why are you sending your kids to school for art? They've taken out all these loans for what?
The Bridge of People
Yeah.
Why? Unless you guys just have, those kinds of funds available, but it doesn't make any sense.
Either they're an artist or they're not. Um, but, you know, in terms of the education piece, you know, learn new skills, get different certifications, and again, talk to everybody, right? Talk to everybody, you know, and again, people are more receptive to younger folks who are eager for information and knowledge, right?
Yeah. But you, you also have to bring with you a, a little bit of, um, preparation right ahead of time, a little bit of [01:01:00] preparation. Um, I have a couple of friends who are, not younger people, but I have a couple of friends who've asked me about different opportunities. And I said, well, look, you know, I need you to go and learn this.
Go learn these skill sets, bring 'em back to me, and then I can show you. This, you know, this schematic, I can show you how to do that. But I can't go and do the work for you. Right. I can't, I can't do that. Yeah. And so, um, yeah, if they wanna get involved, get involved, get to talking to people, knowing people, making sure people know who you are.
Right. And it took me a long time to get that because we can have this hyper independence where we think that we can do all these things along and it's not gonna happen. Mm-hmm. A mentor of mine, he told me something, I, I won't forget this. And he said, um, same is Mr. Cruz. He said, you need a bridge of people.
And every, in every level of life or uh, time period in life, you're gonna need a bridge of people to get you from one place to the next place. Right. And that's only going to happen through people. It's not gonna happen anywhere or any way else. But it's gonna happen through people. So the more people that you know know [01:02:00] you, like you champion for you, right?
That is a direct reflection of your success in any area of life, right? So let's say if it's not about work, it can be about, you know, health and fitness, right?
Yeah.
Go to the gyms, go to the trails, go to the running clubs and all that kind of, you meet these people everywhere. So if there's a goal that you have in mind, you start with the most basic thing.
Go where those people are, wherever they are, you need to be there. That's it. Yeah.
Bridge of people. What a wonderful metaphor.
Yeah.
So as we sort of wrap up here, another question for our audience is kind of what books, podcasts, sort of information. People wanna go deeper on this kind of thinking. Um, or anything for those students that you would recommend?
Obviously your podcast, the major projects.
Oh,
I mean, you have some great people on, I, I like all the Clipse and all that. But it is, it's a great way to understand people's thought processes and [01:03:00] different viewpoints. But you know, outside of that, in terms of like, uh, there are other podcasts that I, I watch like on YouTube and things like that.
There's this one, what was it called? It is what is the, I Emigre, the founder of Good American.
Good American Jeans company,
right?
Yes. Yeah.
Yes. She has some stellar people that come onto her podcast and they really get into the nitty gritty and I love that. Right? Yeah. I love people who are being authentic to themselves, not what other people want them to be.
In terms of books. There's a lady by the name of Amanda Miller Littlejohn. She is a branding coach, strategy coach. Um, I found out about her during COVID and she has a book called Package Your Genius, right? And if there is anyone who's, what they call multi-talented, multi interest, things like that, or just want to figure out a way to carve out your path, especially when you're younger, right?
And even when you're older, you can transform and you can be different at any stage in life. Yeah. And change [01:04:00] shift. Um, but she has a book called Packager Genius. And I've read that book about six times since I purchased it, probably more than that. And she used to have a podcast. They went with it as well.
Um, and it is one of those things where it is a constant reminder that you can do things differently and you don't have to do things the way that they've always been done traditionally or, or not, your perspective does matter and there's, there's a group of people or an audience of people who are waiting to hear your perspective, right?
And that is the same thing that happened during my session at the AACE. I talked about project controls as a leadership system versus just a reporting function. Project controls needs a seat, needs to have a seat at the leadership table because we're the ones who are helping you navigate your projects.
So, you know, we're telling you Yeah. When interventions need to be made, we're giving you the confidence that when you sit in front, you stand in front of the board, that you know what you're talking about and that you know the numbers and the information that you provided is trustworthy. And then we're also the ones who help you decide what decisions that need to be [01:05:00] made, right?
And adjustments that need to be made. And so if you don't have a seat at the table and, and, and you don't have a way of being considered and your perspective being reviewed or a part of the conversation, then you know, you're just another body that can be replaced with AI or some type of, uh, automation, right?
Mm-hmm.
And that doesn't have an intuitive aspect to it, it is just computer knowledge. Yeah. So, um, if, if, if, if they want to do things out outside of the box, go and read up on these people, you know, find at least one person in your city that you could talk to who's either doing what it is that you're looking to, to do, or who has already done it, right?
Go and talk to them. They will be more than happy to share their story with you, right? And then, at some point maybe they want to mentor you. Who knows? But you also want to be able to vet people as well, right? As a younger person, you could be a little naive, right? You wanna be able to vet people [01:06:00] as well, because some people will just want you around just to have you around, not so that you can grow as a person, as a professional, as an individual, what have you, right?
Mm-hmm.
And that comes with time, experience, and wisdom. So that's, that's my spiel I think. I think those recommendations are probably the best that I can give a, a younger person.
And what about connecting with you? Uh, people that wanna reach out, ask you a question, maybe learn about your business, maybe you can tell us a little bit about that and how people can look you up, Christina?
Yeah. Yeah. So I am on LinkedIn, uh, Christina Robinson on LinkedIn. I, we do have a website. It's, uh, Henry Porter llc.com. That's where you can find out, you know, what we do and how we do it. Uh, we prefer to come in before things start to look a mess. And you need recovery. You come in during recovery efforts, you know, the project, one of the projects we're working on now is a recovery effort.
But yeah. Yeah. But between those two things, that's how you can find me.
Awesome. Well, and we'll include links below for the books and things like that. So, um, and your, uh, LinkedIn. Boy, Christina, this was a powerful conversation and I can't thank you enough for coming on [01:07:00] and sharing your perspective. I think I've learned a lot about the younger generation.
I'm very excited to share this with everybody, and I just really appreciate all the time you took today. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us today. And if you'd like to learn more about project controls and project management, feel free to check us out or drop us a follow at the major project podcast.com.