From Technical Experts to Industry Leaders: Lessons from 100+ Years of Project Controls

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Okay. Um, so I ended up in this profession, uh, my fault.

I, I wanted to be a rock guitarist like Ritchie Blackmore, but apparently, uh, my fingers and brain don't work like his, so I had to get a job and I applied for a job as a trainee quantity surveyor, 18-year-old. I wasn't gonna go to college, university, and I went for the interview and apparently I was the, uh, cheeky chap when [00:07:00] asked what does a quantity surveyor do?

And that's a straw poll, actually, you know, if anyone knows. And I just said at the interview, I have no idea you're gonna train me. And that's why I got the job. And, um, I've called myself just about anything and everything along the way navigated that. Snakes and ladders, some promotions, some relegations, some sideways steps.

Um. But the profession has, has been my guiding light. I guess that's, uh, it, I was involved within, in, uh, the associations in the UK, RICS and ACostE. When I came to the US I said to the guys on the ACostE, who do I look up? And they said, you know, basically, look up those damn Yankees. You know. So, um, I did and, uh, wasn't paying attention, did a presentation and then I was.

President of this section. Um, then RD five and then VP admin like Chris, uh, both me and him have lived in Pearland and so there's a commonality there. Um, and then president and here we are, uh, full [00:08:00] career. That was the only time I've ever been interviewed for a job, so it's a good career. Thank you.

I think it's probably the, the first project I ever worked on, uh, when I moved from a general contractor to consulting, it was an oil and gas project where they really knew about project controls.

I was focused on the cost and schedule for the owner. I had a great mentor, uh, with the consulting company. I worked with the project manager for Amoco, then BP, uh, was a great guy. They both taught me a lot. And someone even suckered me into co-authoring a paper for this organization called AACE that I'd never heard of before.

Uh, and that started my decline. So

jokes.

Well, um, so sometimes I talk about project controls as being kind of the accidental profession in that you, you start your career thinking you're gonna go one way potentially, or focus on one area, and you get introduced to something related to project controls, whether that's scheduling.

Estimating, you know, cost management, risk management, and you really, you know, like that and wanna focus on that. And then that kind of accidentally becomes the focus of your career. Um, but what I've seen in teaching is that it's really only been recently a lot of times in textbooks and, and other references, they would always talk about the career path in construction specifically, even though we're not all about construction, we're kind of focused there, uh, is to become a project manager someday.

And there were never actually, you know, what I saw in, in these reference materials, talking about becoming an estimator someday, or a cost engineer or a scheduler. And a lot of times, you know, I talk to my students about you. If you, that's what you like to [00:10:00] do and that's what you wanna focus on. That can become the base of a very lucrative career that isn't necessarily all about managing projects, it's supporting projects, but there's other pathways to be able to rise up in the industry that you might, uh, you know, have a better feel for in terms of what you like doing.

So.

Uh, sure. And, uh, you know, talk about an accidental career,

uh, getting into doing disputes and claims is, uh. You know, something I didn't even realize existed. Right. And, uh, so I, you know, fin like many, uh, I finished engineering school.

I went to work in the, uh, gas utility industry. That was sort of an easy path for me. My, my family had, had worked in, uh, worked in the industry and, uh, and then after, and then I went to graduate school. Uh, I got an MBA and sort of, uh, and I, I love the industry, love the people. Uh, but you know. I literally [00:11:00] wanted to try something different and had an associate of mine within the, the company that I worked for who had actually went out and ventured and did some claims work and came back and, and, uh, and so I applied for, literally applied for a job, uh, you know, got the job.

And I've been in that industry in a couple different firms, but really with the same people for, for 25 or so years. And, you know. Our, uh, all of these firms that I've, I've been with that, you know, push involvement with professional organizations, both from a social and a personal development, uh, level and volunteering, giving back.

And that's been, uh, been an important part of my whole, uh, whole career, my whole life.

Hmm. Well, um, so I, the class that I'm currently teaching at Texas A&M is construction, uh, accounting and financial management. Um, which I'm not an accountant, I'm not a finance guy. I'm a, you know, we consider project controls to be more forward looking and accounting to be more rearward looking just in general.

Right. No offense to any accountants that might be sitting out there. Um, so we tried to, when I was asked to teach this course. The, the guy that directs the program is a former coworker of mine at Hill International years ago. He said, we really wanna try to [00:13:00] spin it, you know, more towards cost engineering, more towards being forward looking and understanding that we're using this accounting base and financial base information to be the, you know, the basis of sound forecast moving forward.

Uh, and, and a little less rearward looking, right? So I've been trying to do that in the course, but the, the way that I've, I've tried to hook them in terms of attention getters is to use case studies. To really show projects that have been executed out in industry and things that have gone right and wrong.

Uh, I use GAO, uh, general accounting, uh, accountability, sorry, government Accountability Office. Um, to actually, you know, the audits that they do on a yearly basis often have a ton of detail that's really, uh, relevant to what we do as project control professionals. So I've, I've actually used three case studies that I pulled from JO Audits to actually show how real world applications.

Uh, can relate to what we're talking about in the classroom and I have them actually present on it to the class. Um, and then the last one is a group case study as well. So that is kind of outside of the [00:14:00] purview of what you'd normally think about, you know, accounting and financial management. But I really wanted to, you know, show them that being able to not only do an analysis.

You also have to present the results of the analysis, not be shy about it really come across as being an expert and being, uh, really being recognized as a member of the team. So that's one of the reasons that I've tried to, or one of the ways that I try to do it within my classroom. So,

tips on that? Yeah, I don't mind wording in like the introduction to that.

I'll just bite on it. Um, so that's a differentiator. There was talk earlier about what's the value in the a c and, and project controls. So one, you're gonna get the fundamentals out the way. Uh, one of my mentors years and years ago at Be and Go in the uk. [00:15:00] Gavin not tapped me on the shoulder one day and a self-appointed mentor and said, you need to get qualified.

You need to get certified. Just get it in the bank, get it done. I always say that to anyone I've, uh, mentored and coached. Um, it's your own credential and you carry it with you. It's what differentiates you. In the states, not so much, but you go international and you've got letters behind your name and people start listening.

Um, and then you learn the skills and they're gonna change. AI's gonna change the world. Um, but I started my career, we still had those cards used to put in the mainframe, right? So that's just another change, right? I'm not too worried about that. But the differentiator between, you know, doing the work and, and some people are quite comfortable doing that or being an advisor to GMs and in a corporation like Chevron, it's the soft skills.

You gotta be able to influence people, right? No accountability, no decision making. What you're gonna do, it's the soft skills that. You've gotta learn [00:16:00] and, um, it's difficult for cost engineers. We're not wired that way. So I will accept that. Yeah, yeah,

yeah. I actually, I wrote a paper a few years back and I'd probably be scared to look at how far back it was, but it was about, uh, project controls reporting, having your message her, you know, so often you, you do see these project controls report and you're like, come away with so what?

Mm-hmm.

Uh, and it's, it's really about presenting the information. And the, here are the takeaways, and here's where, you know, the senior management, project management, whatever, what they should do with this information. There are decisions to be made. And being able to present that information in a way that they understand what they need to do, um, is more meaningful than just laying out all these numbers or a schedule and something like that.

Yeah. Being, being willing to make a recommendation in relation to

Yeah,

the analysis or what you just [00:17:00] reported on. That's the key. And I think a lot of our peers that I've seen are sometimes unwilling to. Put themselves out there to make that recommendation to management. And that's really what I think we need to aspire to, to, to do more moving forward in our careers in general.

That confidence,

great presentation this morning from, and he talked about, you know, having the strength of any conviction and putting your job on the line. Uh, I wouldn't, you know, careful that one. There's always finding where the edge is first, you know, but, um, but that's really spent your conviction. Um, so you're gotta know your stuff.

You gotta know what you're talking about. Um, there's only so many times you can, you can bluff through situations, but it's, again, it's a soft skills that, and, and you build a reputation as well that

Yeah.

That helps

and push back on the, uh, misnomer that, you know, engineer and technical people can't communicate.

Right.

Yeah. And,

uh, it's something that, uh, you know, maybe we spent a lot of time, if you went to engineering school doing technical [00:18:00] studies and maybe less time. But, uh, but the communication, the written communication.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, and I certainly can tell the difference, at least right now in stuff that I get that might be AI generated versus what something's organic.

And, uh, you know, learning that skill and practicing that skill and getting feedback on that skill is as important as any other skill.

so

Yeah, we

I've heard of it. Think why not? It's quite a few questions on that. Yeah. I'll just get core pilot out to help.

Uh, it's, uh, yeah, it's a, I if I had the solution right now, right? You'd be stepping on the side and you'd be paying to get through the door.

Right. But, uh, but, but it's a great question. It's, uh. I mean, I'm excited about it. I'm excited about our organization because, uh, when you have the ability to incorporate new tools, new, uh, new, new ways to perceive things, new ways to look at things, I think this organization has always done a great job, uh, getting out front on that.

And, and, you know, we have, it's, it's not only what they use professionally, but the association itself too has an obligation to. Uh, sort of give tools to our members and that's, that's a bit of a challenge. Now, uh, we're excited about the large language, uh, uh, I'm sorry, large learning model, right? LLM, uh, did I get [00:20:00] that right?

Mm-hmm. The,

uh,

but that might already be out there because all our IP is out there, and that's a challenge for the association is we wanna. Sort of reign back in and get ownership of that, uh, of our ip. And, you know, it's, it's, I see it in the, at the end of the day, as really an opportunity to apply a new set of tools.

We've seen this historically. I mean, uh, I know this one is a game changer across industries, but, uh, Martin mentioned the punch cards, right?

Mm-hmm.

Uh, you go back and look at large engineering projects at the turn of the century. You might see rooms full of engineers doing calculations and, and, uh, I wasn't there

by the way,

I thought, uh, so that was a change, right.

And, uh, it's a change that was, uh, pushed by technology and the ability to, to do these things, uh, in a different way. Mm-hmm. So, you know what? [00:21:00] AI will be the same. Uh, it's gonna just be disruptive, but it's also gonna be an opportunity. Right.

Mm-hmm. Well, I think one of the things we talked about last night over dinner, we, we had to get together for dinner and, and a few drinks

and beers.

Yeah.

Yeah. Uh, uh, make sure we were prepared. Uh, we were talking about the fact that there's a lot more data now available than what used to be, uh, available. Pack in today. Um, so you know, now there's an opportunity if you can have these large models to pull in more data, do more data analysis, we might find correlations to things that we'd never even thought of in the past.

Mm-hmm.

Um,

yeah, I mean, I, I pile on, to me it's very exciting times, right? I've been, went all my career for some. Enabler, like ai, right? So we just touched on reporting. How long does it take to get a, a monthly report out from collating the data, [00:22:00] putting it together, getting approvals, issuing it, having the meeting, and no one pays any attention to it?

AI is gonna be right in your face. You're gonna be able to dive into all sorts of. Data sources. Um, but you better know what you're doing. You know, I remember when, um, spot Fire came out and um, had a guy in, in drilling who could produce a thousand reports, like fantastic. Which one do I read? Yeah. So it ended up three, which were the three we always read historically.

Right. So it, there's a skill in in it. It's, it's gonna be a huge enabler. It's certainly gonna change, uh, how we do work and where we do work. I know that's a theme we're sort of rolling in here, but, um, if I had a career do over i'd, I'd do it. 'cause I've been waiting all this time for some decent tools, you know, not having to rely on, um, knowledge of a software or a program or being able to [00:23:00] write a access code or something.

You know, I don't, I think it's good. Yeah. Until and

until it fully takes over. Uh, someone's gonna have to make the decisions, right?

Mm-hmm.

Uh, based on the data and how to apply resources, uh, limited resources, uh, you know, we, we've, you've seen in history where, uh, different industry financial models, uh, that were dependent on in, in investments in assets that faltered and literally caused the market to crash, right?

And so it's an overdependent sort of. At the time on the ability of these mathematical models. And so, uh, you know, we're gonna have our issues with, with AI driven, uh, data collection. But, uh, you know, at the end, I, I think that it'll be used by our, especially by our association members as a tool that's gonna, uh, improve the ability for people to make decisions and to, uh, to, [00:24:00] you know, continue with their more sort of, uh, important work.

Right. Potentially.

Yeah.

relation to ai? Well, again, I, I think what Martin, you know, pointed to is that AI should speed up the process, obviously, but at the end of the day, it's gonna take someone who understands the project, understands the needs, understands the challenges, to be able to interpret what you know, AI is providing in an expedited manner.

Right. But be able to, again, make a recommendation that that moves that forward to management and becomes part, you know, I always say make it be part of a [00:25:00] discussion. Right? Martin said, don't necessarily put your job on the line by poking someone in the eye Right. But know, you know enough to put it out there for a discussion.

You know, be able to, to have a, uh, you know, iterative process that talks through potential, uh, options, and then selects one and moves it forward and then follows up on that as well. So I, in my mind, AI is not gonna be able to do all of that, right? AI kind of. Like Martin said, speeds it up, makes it more actionable, more timely.

But it's still gonna take a team of individuals, I think, to, to use that information and decide what to do with it. I mean, to me, that's, that's never gonna go away. Maybe it's gonna be less of a, you know, a group of people, uh, because some of the button pushers may not, you know, need to be there anymore.

But I think the management side is still gonna be able to, to use that information as it sees fit. And, and that's not gonna be replaced by AI at any time that I can see.

But is there a scenario where. We will look at, you know, maybe you only need one person to do what three people used to be able to do, but you know, pushing buttons, [00:26:00] maybe there'll be more buttons to push so we can do more.

So we can take on more projects. So we still need the, the same number of people, but they're actually gonna be able to do more with ai possibly.

Yeah.

So I don't think it's even about doing mods. Doing the right stuff. Right,

right.

We, we do a terrible job at projects. You know, benchmarking tells us that 1% of the time we hit cost schedule and production assignment in the oil and gas business.

So it would be nice just to like hit 15 or 20% would be mega improvement around the world. Yeah. I think going back to, to students, I think you've just gotta correct their perception. 'cause if you told them we're gonna send you on a job site in the middle of Mississippi for six months. Punch in time cards and time sheets and filling in daily logs.

You wouldn't be able to recruit them if you told 'em, we're gonna sit you in an office in downtown Houston with AI interrogating all this data. They'll take the job. So I think it's how you [00:27:00] frame it, you tracking people into the industry is they're always looking for the technical side of things. Not technology, sorry, not the geek stuff.

I think that leads in your next, you know, point possibly about remote work, right? Yeah,

will listen.

So, lemme start.

So, I, I don't, I'm not necessarily an opponent of remote work because I think there's definitely time and place for it, but what, what I think happened during COVID because it was, it was forced to happen, right? Is that, you know, even in [00:28:00] construction. A lot of the support staff for construction products had to be remote.

That was required because of COVID. Right. So there was, you know, essential personnel. Obviously the builders were still on site, but a lot of the staff management staff were offsite being remote. And those projects still got executed, maybe not quite as efficiently as they would've if, if people were more on site, but they still happened.

So I think now the thought is even in our industry. Most of which is construction. Not everyone, I'm sure out there is construction focused, but the thought is it worked during COVID. It should be able to still work moving forward, and I just think it, it worked because it had to work Moving forward. There still needs to be a, a certain amount of onsite presence to really understand what's happening on the project.

To be able to talk to the people doing the work, to really, you know, show yourself as a member of the team and not someone sitting in a back office totally separated and, and really not understanding where the challenges and where the issues are. That's, so there needs to be a balance, for sure. Some degree of site presence to really [00:29:00] understand what's happening, where the rubber meets the road.

That's, that's my issue.

Mm-hmm.

So

you didn't cut me off. I was pausing the think. Okay. I just wanted to

make

sure you didn't jump ahead

of me there.

So I think it's, it's a double edged sword. Um, so. Yeah, we started off working from home and now it's working remote. And when you put the remote into the equation, where is it?

It might not be your home, it could be a technical center in India, which is, you know, Chevron is expediting that, or it could be a financial center down in Argentina. Um, and so it's shaking up the workforce. Uh, it also enables the, the other side of the coin. There's a lot more collaboration, right. Um, you know, international projects, international engineering, um, and also finding where your subject matter expert is.

If they're in Egypt, you just grab them. Right? You don't have to even get 'em on a plane anymore. Um, the way we work in is very different. Some things in operations, some [00:30:00] examples of, of Chevron. You might have seen it on LinkedIn and things like that. We've got these little robotic dogs, right? And, and what they do is they'll go into hazardous areas where.

Extremely dangerous for humans to go in, especially if there's a, a situation going on and they can report back and the engineers can knock themselves out in some remote location, come up with solution and, and then a work plan. So seeing lots of applications coming in, uh, from that work remote. Um, but I, the other side of the coin, again, from my own perspective and, and mentoring it quite significantly, is how do you manage your career?

If you're in your bedroom on a laptop, how do you manage your career? And I'm quoting Ed Merrow of IPA on that one. Um, it's extremely challenging, you know, um, we're still humans. Out of, out of sight is outta mind. It's still there. Um, and also. How do you learn those soft skills [00:31:00] we touched on as well? Yeah, yeah.

I'm, I'm seeing a lot on teams where you use avatars or you people go blank and you don't know if they're even present, right? So there's, there's a lot of challenges, pros, cons, but, um, those are good at it. They're good at it. And I think those, we started to see people who, um. I weren't the best at it, fearing out a little bit.

So it, it, it's just a change. I, I hated it at first 'cause I've always been a, I've gotta be there, even if it was somewhere pretty awful. Little timbuk too. Um, I got used to it. Um, I'm okay with it now. So

I was just gonna say, I think, you know, and I'm, I'm a big proponent of people, you know. Uh, collaborating with others and, and, you know, being able to be on a job site in particular if we're talking about a construction project, uh, to see what's going on there.

But I think an important caveat is that remote na, this is not your parents' remoteness. You [00:32:00] know, working remotely now is a lot different than it looked like six years ago.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Uh, and our ability to collaborate, I mean, someone said, well, you know, it's great to be able to someone, you know, pops their head in and say, Hey, have you got a few minutes if you're all working in the office?

But I get that all the time on teams. Someone says, Hey, got a minute. Mm-hmm. And they, and you know, or it just rings and, and all of a sudden I'm, I'm in a meeting. Uh, so we're still able to collaborate with someone being remote in different locations. It's not the same as, you know, being on a job site, obviously, but it, it does get us a large part of the way there.

Now, what remote's gonna look like? Five years from now. Mm-hmm. You know, when we may have drones going out and taking cameras and, and video on job sites so that no, you can sit in your bedroom, in your pajamas and, and, and tour the [00:33:00] job. Um, maybe, maybe it's, it's coming and it's really gonna, uh, make it so much easier to work remotely.

I don't think it'll ever be a hundred percent replacement.

Yeah.

But it's, it's certainly done more than it used to be.

Yeah. It's just some industries more than others, I think. And I, I think our industry, our base industry being construction, I think there's still an always gonna be an element of having to be there to a certain extent.

'cause you just, you just miss so much. If you're not there. Right? Yeah. That's, we talk about, you know, Mike talk, Michael talks about claims. You know, that whole idea of, of seeing, you know

mm-hmm.

Impacts and delays as they're occurring contemporaneously instead of retrospectively. Right. So those are two big claims words for you.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but, but being able to see it as it's happening, talk to people as it's happening. You don't miss it and wind up having to come back to it weeks later. It's just, uh, I just think it's so much more efficient to, to have some degree of sight presence.

Yeah. Um, yeah, when we do, uh, right, there's a, there's a difference between, uh, sort of a, after [00:34:00] the fact consulting assignment as a, you know, a retrospective, uh, assignment.

We work very well, uh, as a team. Uh, the, the group that I work with, that's, that's potentially spread out with different expertise. I like to be in the office. Uh. Regularly. Uh, the thing that, the thing that sort of worries me a bit is, uh, for new, new people in the business and, and people outta school, uh, in any business, uh, starting out working remotely or working from home and not getting, uh, sort of that interaction and that benefit that you get from, uh, being around others who are experienced in your field, that worries me more than sort of, uh.

A lot of, like, the, the way that, you know, I work, and I think many of us work, uh, I mean, listen, we're all here in person, right? And I think, uh, you know, I, I mentioned this before. I'm tired of webinars, [00:35:00] right. Uh, for meetings. And I look, you know, I want, uh, face-to-face meetings. I wanna meet, I wanna socialize.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, you know, that's the backbone of our, you know, of our association is our events. And, uh. You know, and you know, I think that's the benefit that we

have and I don't want that to get lost.

Right.

Yeah. You know, and to the, to the point we live, uh, talking about, so you can watch everything remote in your pajamas in your bedroom, right?

But how do you know what you're looking at if you've never been there? I think that's a big sensory experience as humans. We don't just look through a little. You know, iPad, uh, Google, like we, we take a whole lot of stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, from, sort of from an association perspective. Right? And I'll let, uh, sort of Martin take the, uh, on the ground, uh, project controls perspective.

Uh, the, you know, the, and this is to my point about social interaction and meeting people face to face. Uh, we have a, in Brazil is a, a great example. Uh, great section, great event, uh, great people all, you know, I, I think in general. Uh, for, for humans. Uh, I think the more people we meet in different places, I think the more we realize we're all sort of the same.

Right. And that's an impor that was an important part of, uh, and, you know, it's, it's easy. It, it seems kind of obvious, right? But until you experience it, I think that, uh, that's a perspective I have. But one, you know, one thing going and, and being. Uh, on the ground in a different location that might do business a little differently.

Uh, not necessarily extremely different, but, but, uh, social interaction was, [00:38:00] was obviously very important, but we're also, uh, facing, you know, as an association competition from other places as well that that might, might be there in other parts of the world that isn't there. And what I'll, you know, say is North America, which is really the.

You know, more than half of the association. And, uh, you know, that was eye-opening. And, uh, there's competition out there. Uh, again, I, you know, I, I keep saying these things that feel and seem obvious, but until you actually experience them and see them, they, they might not really, the, the extreme examples and the, the impact it could have might not really be there yet.

It's, uh, and it was a bit eyeopening from that perspective. So

picking up on, on the point, uh, you ask, so ace's standards, recommended practices are global, you know. Um, because people are working with, uh, oil companies or EPCs, who are [00:39:00] global entities and embedded in everything they do is the a CE. Um, we've got vendors here.

Everything they do is wrapped around foundationally those things. So people, if they're not aware of it, is still doing it. I think the biggest challenge when you, you start this international, uh, outreach is that there's a lot of cultural differences. Um. You know, I was joking earlier with one of the, the booze was getting set up a little late and I said, oh, we're on Brazilian time.

Yeah. Manana, whatever. You know, it sort of runs that way a little bit. Um, other places, everything's literal,

you know?

Um, there's also certain etiquette in, in meetings, things like that

for sure.

There's, there's lots of different nuances when you start doing international and, um. And then you're in the, the, the world of geopolitics and then don't need to go there.

Right. But we've seen, you know, COVID, huge disruption from that. We've now got huge disruption in the Middle East again. Um. [00:40:00] If you're on international project, you're reading the news every day. I mean, it's stuff like that goes on. It could be an earthquake in Turkey, and suddenly you find that affects a project in Australia, and that was a real, uh, event.

So that's the difference of when, when you start going international. Yeah.

Yeah. And I, I haven't done international in a while, but when I was at Parsons um, a few years ago, we had a, a ton of international contracts. A lot of them related to the Iraqi reconstruction effort, uh, after the war with Iraq. And I can tell you the thing that I learned back then is there's a whole subset within the project controls community that that's what they wanna do.

They are, they are road warriors. They wanna be, you know, go to an international project because a lot of that is tax free. If it's in a, uh, you know, an area like Iraq, there was, you know, hazard, hazardous, hazardous duty pay on top of mm-hmm. Me being tax free. There are, it's, it's a small subculture within our industry that if you know who those people are, you know, you can always find people that are willing to go international and [00:41:00] be on site for, you know, years because that's what they're doing.

A lot of them are towards the end of their career, so they wanna put a nest egg away before they retire fully. But it's very interesting. There's this whole, there's this whole subset of, of people that that's what they wanna do with, you know, that in that part of their career, be international on a long-term project living there.

Um, you know, putting that money away because it's tax free. And it's just really interesting once you, you know, find these people and get to know them, and you can then use them as resource base to, uh, to execute international work, you know, throughout your career if you, if you find those people and, and get to know them.

So,

so talking international, I'm not a international tax exile living in Houston. One who lived in two places, been over 50 countries though, so it's a bit of a, I'm not quite one of those guys.

Mm-hmm.

Hey, Chris, what about you?

No, I, I, I find it fascinating to learn about project controls in other countries.

It, [00:42:00] it's generally the same from a cost and schedule perspective. You know, contract forms may differ a little bit, you know, just how the, the details of how it's applied may vary a little bit, but it's largely the same. Claims can look quite different in other. Countries, you know, you have the legal structure and, and even methodologies change during a lot in different parts of the world.

Um, and then some countries it's just you, you know, go out on a golf course and, and reach some settlement. So

other countries you don't have claims.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. One of my favorite experiences, uh, is being stuck in a trailer, uh, on a Greek island. Working for an Italian contractor with a project team made up of, uh, engineers and, uh, project controls. People half from Spain and half from Finland with a bunch of Americans, uh, scattered in for doing the scheduling and mm-hmm.

That was, [00:43:00] uh, talk about dispute resolution, right? I mean, that was, and the things you would hear in the, in the trailer just sitting there. And, uh, that was probably one of the most interesting, uh, uh. Times of my career.

Mm-hmm.

Was that all the different cultures that mm-hmm. In the end have the same goal, but can't agree on, you know, what to order for lunch?

uh, [00:44:00] well, for in the short answer is, uh, is really around, uh, how fast this.

This has gone in the president's chair and, uh, it's a, it's a three year term that's boiled down to one year term. And, uh, you know, there's, there's a lot of different routes to the association to this, uh. Position. Uh, but they all, you know, the, the commonality of, of all of it is all, we're all volunteers, right?

And, uh, and so there's don't

I think they got paid, but

Yeah. But, uh, but how fast it's gone and, you know, things that I foresaw, uh, you know, but we do have a lot of continuity on our board in terms of how we set up a strategic plan. And, uh, it, it's intended to be multi-year.

We have continuity with our executive director and our headquarters, uh, staff and you know, that that's a tremendous asset for the association, but [00:45:00] the people that we have in headquarters and, and that sort of, in a lot of ways, I think, uh, I've talked to all these guys seem to have a little more tumultuous, uh, uh, time when they were president with the association than, than I feel like I've had.

But, uh, but headquarters is in, uh, sort of this continuity across the planning, right? Planning. We, we wanna plan, uh, I think has made it, uh, smooth. And

I, I can add. So, and, and one thing that Michael said, we're an association of volunteers. That, that is a positive and sometimes not so positive because, um, you know, I, I remember after I was done being president, I was chair of the education board for a year, and at that point there was a, a push to actually.

Uh, get a lot of our training material out online as, as online training courses that you could, uh, that you could sign up for and pay for and, and, you know, be able to do virtually. And I, I think that that has happened to a certain extent, but, uh, it wasn't, I don't [00:46:00] think it was fully recognized by the executive director at that point and by the staff.

How much work actually goes into an initiative like that. And when you're working with. You know, a group of volunteers that all, for the most part have a day job, except for people like Martin that are already retired. It's very hard to put the group together that can commit to, you know, a very time intensive initiative like that.

So things, because we're mo, you know, our, our support staff, which is no longer even based in Morgantown, a hundred percent because they want virtual, there is, you know, pretty, pretty downsized from what it used to be. Now they're all spread out. So we are, you know, in order to get things done. You've gotta put a group of volunteers together to try to find time to commit to something.

And if it's, if it's too big of an effort and too broad of an initiative, it's gonna take a lot of time to happen. And sometimes it won't happen because it's, it's too hard to get, you know, volunteers to, to put the, the right amount of time aside to focus on that initiative. So that's just something to consider.

It takes time. Some of the, our materials are, [00:47:00] are, you know, we're, we're in the process of redoing our, our skills and knowledge. Number six, I was, you know, part of that. Uh, review process. There's other things that we're looking at in terms of references and our, our fees that are starting to be outdated. It just takes time because, you know, we are mostly trying to, to do two things at once, work our day job, and to support the association as best we can.

So, so anyone that wants to volunteer to be part of those committees and subcommittees, absolutely. You're, you're welcome to do that because we need the help and it's just, you know, putting the time together and the minds together to, uh, to be more. You know, cutting edge then we would like, or then we have been up to this point, but we would like to be, is definitely, um, something that we aspire to do, for sure.

Yeah, I think I would, I would probably characterize it as there's, there's two levels to the association. There are the, the users, those people that come to AACE to look at our recommended practices, the body of knowledge, and use that in their day-to-day job. And then there are the contributors, the people that volunteer.

They [00:48:00] write papers, they sit on the technical boards. And I think what you get out of this association as a contributor is exponential over just being a user. Um, so if, if you wanna sit in this chair one day, really all you have to do is show an interest and be willing to give some time. But what you'll get out of it is so much more than what you have to put into it, I think.

Yeah. And I'll just close out on that with. So you don't ask to be in this chair. There's an election process sort of goes on. Um, so stars have to align,

but there, but there aren't many people fighting for it.

No, it's, yeah. No, we really put 'em off today. No, but what I would say is you learn skills that you can take back to the workplace.

Servant leadership, it's influence. It's a nonprofit. Everyone's a volunteer. Everyone's got an opinion. Now, when you're the president, that's the email that gets all the opinions. Um, but when you look [00:49:00] back on it, it's a blast, right?

Mm-hmm.

But it's better being a past president than being the president.

That's all I'm gonna say.

Yeah. Soon enough. But the, you know, the hard work of the association has done the, the real effort, and Mike was talking about was our associate awards, our interest groups, uh, our sections, uh, tremendous number of volunteer hours go, go into this organization.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, sitting here in this chair.

Is, is become almost, uh, sort of easy compared to what, uh, you know, people are, uh, producing in sort of the thought leadership that comes out of the association.

disagree.

Yeah. Quite crowd. We need to start.

Oh,

So my 5-year-old,

25-year-old. I thought that would be said that, yeah.

Start drinking early. Mm-hmm.

So for me, 25 years old, I was, uh, let's see, I was a Marine in, I think, uh, desert Shield Desert Storm when I was 25.

Um, and, uh, I would just say my, you know, advice to myself is, it gets better than this moving forward in your career, especially if you, uh, decide to leave the military and do something on the civilian side. But, but take the lessons that you, you know, have learned, uh, wherever you happen to get your start.

Mine happened to be in the Marine Corps. And, and leverage the things that make sense and that you can apply down the road. You know, I, you know, I rarely have the opportunity to yell at someone in my Marine Corps voice like I could back then, [00:51:00] but, um, but I remember how to be a leader. I remember how to, you know, get things done.

And I've been able to apply that in my, in my career, uh, on the civilian side after leaving the Marine Corps. So it's just taking, you know, lessons as they come. Understanding that you need to potentially tailor them moving forward to be able to ultimately apply them, uh, throughout the rest of your life and the rest of your career is, is what's the important thing, so,

mm-hmm.

So my 25-year-old self, so I still remember it. Um, and that was again, a mentor got hold of me and, and basically told me to get my blank blank, blank together. Right. Um, so 25 I was already running. Um. The m and e side of three petrochemical projects, uh, on site. Was it, I'd got divorced, I'd moved house three times.

I'd already worked away three years. I had a child. And so I was a bit bit of a train wreck. I wasn't quite a James Dean. Um, but it was, it was at that point it was like, slow down, think it [00:52:00] through. Uh, and that's when I started the, uh, academic period of my life and, and got chartered in this, that and the other.

And value engineering. Quality management, you name it. Five years of pretty intense sort of study. And, um, I wouldn't quite say it was, uh, straightening myself out, but I had a plan then and I, I followed it before then. It was just an accidental, uh, train wreck.

Yeah,

still

remember it. Yep. Nice sports car though.

Yeah,

I would just say always be asking questions.

Yeah.

Always be trying to learn something new.

Yes. Okay. Yeah. And, uh, you know, I, it sounds, uh, cliche, but I think, uh, you know, have some urgency, uh, to get where you want to go. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and again, more cliche, uh, be confident. Uh, but take the time to, to really learn things and learn, uh

mm-hmm.

You know, uh, [00:53:00] about yourself and, and learn

mm-hmm.

Things that are will benefit, where, where you decide to want to go. But that sense of urgency mm-hmm. Uh, is, you know. Uh, life comes at you fast. I think that's a

mm-hmm.

A quote from a movie and, uh, you know, and I think it's true. It

certainly is true.

Yeah.

Bueller, I think, right? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was confident and cocky and I, I suffered from the cocky and needed the edges knocking off a few times. Yeah. But not lots changed. Yeah.